Micheál Martin: The beginning of the middle of the end?

[Statsman]

In the wake of Jim Gavin's effective withdrawal from the Presidential election, it would appear that Micheál Martin's leadership of FF is under severe questioning, with his namesake Mícheál Lehane writing this morning:

His highly controlled leadership style and top-down messaging will now come into focus as his colleagues try to make sense of the last 24 hours.

Plus, the likelihood of him leading the party after December 2027, when his time as Taoiseach is scheduled to conclude, has surely diminished too.

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-co ... -election/

The one question seems to be whether or not Martin will be given that long or not, with a real chance that a heave may come sooner.

What a way to distract from tomorrow's budget.

[schmittel]

Billy Kelleher on Morning Ireland whilst not coming out straight and calling for MM's head, but certainly implying it, saying it's up to the TDs.

It's "inflicted a serious trauma" on the party, "decisions which are made must have consequences" etc

[p.ie man]

It seems strange that Martin did not take the "safe" option of Billy Kelleher for his candidate. I wonder is there some previous "beef" between Martin and Kelleher down in Cork?

[schmittel]

It seems strange that Martin did not take the "safe" option of Billy Kelleher for his candidate. I wonder is there some previous "beef" between Martin and Kelleher down in Cork?

Definitely a very odd decision, and that's not just with hindsight. But surely if it was personal "beef" behind the decision that would have been well known within the party and the dissenters would have made more noise about it at the time.

[midlander12]

In the wake of Jim Gavin's effective withdrawal from the Presidential election, it would appear that Micheál Martin's leadership of FF is under severe questioning, with his namesake Mícheál Lehane writing this morning:



https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-co ... -election/

The one question seems to be whether or not Martin will be given that long or not, with a real chance that a heave may come sooner.

What a way to distract from tomorrow's budget.

My initial reaction last night was 'he's gone' and I notice even Jack Chambers wasn't killing himself defending him on MI just now. But then, no doubt Boy Jack sees himself as the replacement.

I personally suspect he'll hang on till New Year and then go, giving his successor (mostly likely Jim O'C, not Jack) a 2-year run as Taoiseach before the handover to Carroll McNeill. Oh yeah, about that.....

[Brabantje]

My initial reaction last night was 'he's gone' and I notice even Jack Chambers wasn't killing himself defending him on MI just now. But then, no doubt Boy Jack sees himself as the replacement.

I personally suspect he'll hang on till New Year and then go, giving his successor (mostly likely Jim O'C, not Jack) a 2-year run as Taoiseach before the handover to Carroll McNeill. Oh yeah, about that.....

I'm not sure Jack Chambers would be all that safe himself as he's deputy leader and director of elections.
He could find himself on the cutting room floor...

[Statsman]

My initial reaction last night was 'he's gone' and I notice even Jack Chambers wasn't killing himself defending him on MI just now. But then, no doubt Boy Jack sees himself as the replacement.

I personally suspect he'll hang on till New Year and then go, giving his successor (mostly likely Jim O'C, not Jack) a 2-year run as Taoiseach before the handover to Carroll McNeill. Oh yeah, about that.....

You never know, if HH manages to become the first ever FG Pres, Simon might make it to the next GE.

[Gatsbygirl]

I'm not sure Jack Chambers would be all that safe himself as he's deputy leader and director of elections.
He could find himself on the cutting room floor...

Chambers is Martin's creature, and while he will try to disassociate himself from the damaged Martin, he can't really

I never thought Chambers was a good pick, and couldn't understand why Martin thought this rather unimpressive young whipper-snapper was suitable for high office.

So in that sense Chambers was Martin's first Gavin---another inexplicable choice

I'm not sure that Martin will go on foot of this latest disaster, but he is holed below the water line, and it is probably the beginning of the end for him

There is a fatal narrowness of vision and a parochialism about many of our politicians, and Martin typifies it---GAA, up-ya-boyo, etc

Martin though Gavin's GAA background would do the business, and was all that was needed

Well Michael, some of us are not as obsessed with GAA as you are. First and foremost we expect a future President to be able to string a coherent sentence together. Didn't you notice this problem at Gavin's interview? Or were you "working from home" that day and just did it all by WhatsApp?

[Socthesecond]

One is reminded of "On mature recollection " and all that stuff.

FG still won't win a Presidential Election.

[ceannairceach]

This is not a reflection of MM - who I actually can’t stand - nor Gavin, who I don’t know much of, but a more general point.

What would be wrong with going “fck I forgot to pay that l! Am an idiot, I’ll add 20% for the inconvenience, we good ?”

[Statsman]

This is not a reflection of MM - who I actually can’t stand - nor Gavin, who I don’t know much of, but a more general point.

What would be wrong with going “fck I forgot to pay that l! Am an idiot, I’ll add 20% for the inconvenience, we good ?”

Well, if Gavin had done that, it might have been OK, but he tried to play the poor mouth while pretending he couldn't remember.

[schmittel]

This is not a reflection of MM - who I actually can’t stand - nor Gavin, who I don’t know much of, but a more general point.

What would be wrong with going “fck I forgot to pay that l! Am an idiot, I’ll add 20% for the inconvenience, we good ?”

After listening to the background from Fionnan Sheahan this morning, and the Jack Chambers, I think the issue here is political rather than moral.

Sheahan contacted the party last week for comment on the €3k debt. After talking to Gavin, official party comment was there is no record or recollection of anything like this, strongly suggesting the tenant was making it up. Within 24 hours that was clearly nonsense and Gavin had been fibbing to his party bosses.

Make no mistake, Gavin was stood down rather than personally withdrawing after mature reflection. As far as FF are concerned, the bigger crime is the not the financial irregularities, but the fact that Gavin led them into giving a demonstrably false statement to the press.

On the financial irregularities, I saw this on twitter and it made me chuckle:

[Gatsbygirl]

This is not a reflection of MM - who I actually can’t stand - nor Gavin, who I don’t know much of, but a more general point.

What would be wrong with going “fck I forgot to pay that l! Am an idiot, I’ll add 20% for the inconvenience, we good ?”

Apologising, walking stuff back, admitting that you might have got something wrong and that you'll try to put things right----that stuff has all gone out of fashion. Maybe it's the Trump effect.

Connolly can't admit that she might have made an error of judgement with the Eirigi woman. Instead she doubles down and goes in harder "I admire this woman"

Gavin couldnt fess up immediately, couldn't meet the man, pay him with interest and then apologise. Nope. Not happening.

[ceannairceach]

Apologising, walking stuff back, admitting that you might have got something wrong and that you'll try to put things right----that stuff has all gone out of fashion. Maybe it's the Trump effect.

Connolly can't admit that she might have made an error of judgement with the Eirigi woman. Instead she doubles down and goes in harder "I admire this woman"

Gavin couldnt fess up immediately, couldn't meet the man, pay him with interest and then apologise. Nope. Not happening.

You’d get more respect from the people who you want votes from for sure!!

[Brabantje]

Former FF voter on de liveline now not a happy bunny. Also first sighting of a wild "common sense has gone out the window" in the field.

[Gatsbygirl]

Former FF voter on de liveline now not a happy bunny. Also first sighting of a wild "common sense has gone out the window" in the field.

Some FF-ers (lost track of who is who) on RTE all day--some throwing Gavin under the bus, some circling the wagons, others angry with Martin...one said "we were frog-marched out to the media to support Gavin even though we had not met him"

Norma Foley denies this happened. She says it was the same democratic system FF has always used for selection. Everyone voted and Gavin won. She refuses to diss Martin directly.

I never rated Foley, thought she was a poor Minister, but listening to her I thought "Jeez, she's articulate, is handling every question well. She would have been an ok Presidential candidate"

That's what we're reduced to now. The bar is low. I chatted with my local postman this morning, and I was thinking "Hmmm...he would make a good candidate for the Presidency. He's articulate, well informed, fluent...."

[Statsman]

I'm gutted I didn't put myself forward at this stage.

[Gatsbygirl]

I'm gutted I didn't put myself forward at this stage.

Have you secretly signed in a woman to the Dail who was caught with instruments of torture, guns and containers of petrol in her car and was just released from jail?

You have?. Ah well, no problem. You're good for the Head of State gig, Stats...

Provided you have a decent dark suit and can read from a few cue cards, and are sound on the new GAA rules

Be grand.

[ceannairceach]

Have you secretly signed in a woman to the Dail who was caught with instruments of torture, guns and containers of petrol in her car and was just released from jail?

You have?. Ah well, no problem. You're good for the Head of State gig, Stats...

Provided you have a decent dark suit and can read from a few cue cards, and are sound on the new GAA rules

Be grand.

I joined LGB Alliance and have a proper rainbow flag, not the new insane one.

I’d never get nominated would I ??

[Brabantje]

Have you secretly signed in a woman to the Dail who was caught with instruments of torture, guns and containers of petrol in her car and was just released from jail?

You have?. Ah well, no problem. You're good for the Head of State gig, Stats...

Provided you have a decent dark suit and can read from a few cue cards, and are sound on the new GAA rules

Be grand.

One of the ironies of Jim's new rules is that you're meant to leave three players in each half...

[Gatsbygirl]

One of the ironies of Jim's new rules is that you're meant to leave three players in each half...

Not everyone is on board with these rules. The GAA is as riven behind the scenes as FF

Same complaints : " Grass roots....top down rules...the lads....the lads aren't happy...what about the grass roots?...I'm saying nothing....we'll have open democratic discussions...there will be robust discussions (someone gonna get knifed)...the punters...the lads...lessons must be learned"

[schmittel]

One of the ironies of Jim's new rules is that you're meant to leave three players in each half...

Another irony was the motivating quote in his Jim Gavin for President twitter bio...

Screenshot 2025-10-06 at 15.30.24.jpg (67.54 KiB) Viewed 899 times

[midlander12]

You never know, if HH manages to become the first ever FG Pres, Simon might make it to the next GE.

'If' doing a lot or work there.

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

I dunno, hard as I'm trying I can't apply it to Harris. But then there's Mary Lou, seemingly doomed for the last year or so, and now apparently on the verge of a 'game-changing' triumph.

[Publicrealm]

Waterford Whispers are at it again, the fekkers:

RATINGS agency Moody’s has downgraded the Irish Presidential election from a ‘shitshow’ to a ‘total fecking disaster’ following the exit of Fianna Fáil candidate Jim Gavin.

Gavin, who was found to owe a former tenant €3,300 for the past 16 years and had ignored several solicitors’ letters, withdrew from the Presidential race with immediate effect yesterday evening.

“You’d think being an unscrupulous landlord would make the perfect Presidential candidate to represent Fianna Fáil, but apparently times have changed,” a government source said, describing the mood in Leinster House.

Previously downgraded from a shambles to a shitshow last week after Catherine Connolly was found to have hired someone fresh from serving a Special Criminal Court conviction for unlawful possession of firearms, Moody’s warned the race could still sink even further, with all eyes now on the remaining two candidates.

“All we need now is Heather Humphreys to be found operating a cobalt mine in South Africa to reach the next Moody’s level, ‘a jackass jamboree’,” the report stated

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2025/ ... -disaster/

[John]

When Jim Gavin's name first came out as the FF candidate back in late August, Ivan Yates and many others in political circles thought it was an absolute masterstroke, that he would tip the poll in every Dublin constituency