There's no prescribed number of warnings here, so it's pointless to keep count!ceannairceach wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 8:24 pm He’s been warned twice now - and tbh the Netanyahoo is getting really old too.
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Israel and Palestine
Re: Israel and Palestine
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Oh totally no not like the “other place” points etc but there’s a point where we go into trollery…
Grown up debate can’t be that hard like ??
Btw - keep doing a great job mod-wise!!! Looking in on that place and it’s like Heathers crossed with Mad Max and Mean Girls!!!
Last edited by ceannairceach on Mon Sep 29, 2025 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Israel and Palestine
Breaking news, Trump claims he's got Netanyahu signed up to a peace deal.
Interesting development to say the least, presumably much more detail will emerge soon.
https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/202 ... u-meeting/
Interesting development to say the least, presumably much more detail will emerge soon.
https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/202 ... u-meeting/
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Re: Israel and Palestine
If he has then fair play, let’s hope the usual suspects don’t kick it out based on their TDS!!schmittel wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 8:40 pm Breaking news, Trump claims he's got Netanyahu signed up to a peace deal.
Interesting development to say the least, presumably much more detail will emerge soon.
https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/202 ... u-meeting/
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Re: Israel and Palestine
The Israelis and Trump have a peace deal on the table a fair one that gives Hamas members amnesty and the release of thousands of Palestinian prisoners. They have to give back the hostages, give back their weapons and give up notions of further attacking Israel. Let’s see if they accept. I won’t hold my breath though. In the recent cnn interview they said “we will never surrender”.schmittel wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 8:40 pm Breaking news, Trump claims he's got Netanyahu signed up to a peace deal.
Interesting development to say the least, presumably much more detail will emerge soon.
https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/202 ... u-meeting/
https://www.firstpost.com/world/trump-g ... 38026.htmlTrump said that Israel will have his “full backing” to go after Hamas if the group would reject the proposal.
For months, Hamas has said that the war should end first and Israel should withdraw before it fulfils its side of obligations in any deal.
So far, Hamas has rejected any plan in which it has “no governance role, directly, indirectly, or in form” and has dubbed disarmament as a red line. It has also rejected the handover of governance to Palestinian Authority (PA), which it accuses of being in league with Israel, or an international coalition.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
As part of the new peace deal trump makes himself the new leader there. Funny but true. The “America first” president becomes the leader of Palestine(if Hamas accept).
No better man to find a deal if one can be struck.
No better man to find a deal if one can be struck.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Oh I don't have to paint anything more about Netyenyahoo and the boys leading a failed state. The UN General Assembly clearing out the other day when Netyenyahoo gave his little speech the other day says what most of the world thinks of Israel's efforts these past two years.knownunknown wrote: ↑Mon Sep 29, 2025 5:08 pm It’s all very childish, attempting to paint Israel as a failed state and misspelling names. Just another reason not to take seriously what they say. The goal is the destruction of Israel, whether they know it or not, they propagate this shit without thinking.
Why do we never hear about criticism for Hamas? Because they are freedom fighters fighting the righteous cause.
schrodinger's Hamas:
They don’t have any more power
They don’t exist and are no longer fighting
You cannot defeat them and the more you kill the more that will sprout up
They are the only ones fighting against Israeli genocide
They are freedom fighters that have been locked in an open air prison for decades
They were forced to attack Israel on Oct. 7th
It was just upset civilians on Oct. 7th
All they want is a peace deal
Your goal is clearly mudguarding any and all criticism, no matter how deserved it is, about the Israeli state's utter moral collapse under a group of genocidal fanatics. I mean it's the old bad cop/worse cop routine with your minion Ceannairceach here. Why do you do that? Perhaps, at this stage, it's got to be a very strong connection or some other pressing reason making you so happy to pretend St. Netyenyahoo never did no wrong in his 75 years on this Earth.
Schroedinger's Hamas oh I do despair.
How about we do Schroedinger's IDF instead:
They haven't killed or wounded 200,000 civilians in Gaza, they're all terrorists.
They haven't engaged in genocide, state terror, collective punishment, enforced famine, use of scorched earth tactics etc and have instead carried out the best, most moral war in human history.
They haven't obeyed orders from superiors to shoot Palestinian children multiple times, targeting specific body parts on different days at GHF sites and instead they feed them all so well.
They haven't killed over 250 journalists who covered the war as Israel is apparently the Middle East's bestest and onlyiest democracy who always give freedom to the press.
They didn't merciless slaughter 15 unarmed paramedics as that phone recording was surely a Hamas ploy.
They were forced to target every single one of the hospitals in Gaza killing injured and civilians as Sinwar was clearly hiding under every one of them all at once, Schroedinger's Sinwar.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Sinwar
There's probably more, a lot more, but just want to give you a flavour ya know. The old hospital bombings are back on the Zionist menu I see. That's something I never thought I'd hear become a normalised phrase in conflicts of the 21st century. I thought the IDF were the world's most moral and modern force? Not Genghis Khan's Mongol horde come to commit mass murder, looting and rasing of a medieval city to the ground?
Hard to distinguish between innocent civilians and Hamas I suppose when there's been that much propaganda fed into them all their young lives by the Zionist media within Israel about Sinwar the boogeyman. It's unfortunately been very easy to turn young Israeli's into tools of mass murder though. You'd think IDF soldiers could tell the hundreds of unarmed Palestinian children they've shot though, from the Palestinian adults in Hamas armed with guns that they're supposed to be fighting, wouldn't ye though? What do you think about that one knownunknown?
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2025 ... -onslaught
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Alright Guburnor I have reposted the post with the changes you suggested. Fair enough.
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Well in the usual manner that the Art of the Deal should be done, you ambush the other party with an ultimatum, announce it as a great deal already done to the world and just leave the other side swinging in the wind.knownunknown wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 1:51 am The Israelis and Trump have a peace deal on the table a fair one that gives Hamas members amnesty and the release of thousands of Palestinian prisoners. They have to give back the hostages, give back their weapons and give up notions of further attacking Israel. Let’s see if they accept. I won’t hold my breath though. In the recent cnn interview they said “we will never surrender”.
https://www.firstpost.com/world/trump-g ... 38026.html
In any case, let's see what happens. Usually in a war, you call a ceasefire first and make terms with the enemy before you go running to the press but this is MAGA world diplomacy where you wash all your dirty linen in clear public view going against all historical assumptions of international diplomacy. At any rate, this is an ultimatum not a peace deal. Do what we say or else there will be grave consequences. You could argue it's diplomatic pressure to bring a quick end to the suffering, but they could have done that anyway behind closed doors without announcing it to the world.
The problem is the terms of this still as yet unaccepted deal are still largely unclear and what we know is based on leaks. On the negative side, it seems they'll call in an independent body to manage Gaza under a transitional government with both Trump and Israel maintaining huge influence over the territory under the leadership of Tony Blair. You'd have to question the fairness and impartiality of someone like Trump being involved, as his position and the position of the American government is clearly biased towards the Israeli position so you're giving away the keys to the kingdom to an impartial body it would seem. Also Israel basically retains control of security.
On the plus side, the leaked deal appears to maintain that the territory will see a withdrawal of the IDF in return for Hamas laying down arms and disbanding. Hamas members will supposedly be given amnesty and a deal made for hostages, with the remaining living Israeli hostages being released for nearly two thousand Palestinians. A ceasefire or freezing of battlefield conditions appears to have been offered in the meantime as the swaps take place. Then UNRWA and other international aid organisations will apparently be let in and perhaps most importantly Palestinians will be allowed to stay in the strip and those who leave the strip for medical treatment may return.
The rest of the stuff mentioned like economic redevelopment and the creation of a future Palestinian state are very much pie in the sky stuff. Also, no mention is made of the West Bank and the planned illegal settlements and those illegal settlements already built. Also, there's the issue of reneging on past deals. There appears to be no suggestion of an international peacekeeping force to keep Israel from so easily breaking the terms of this alleged deal. I mean the Palestinians have just experienced 2 years of genocide and extremely barbaric treatment at the hands of Israel. Would you not want some international non partizan force involved in security to prevent so easy a resumption of war between Hamas and Israel?
Let's see what happens anyway.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... peace-plan
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... rael-hamas
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
Re: Israel and Palestine
This deal sounds a lot like a business take over plan (no surprise there), and based on the little information available I’d be very surprised if the Palestinians accepted it in this form. A list of short term benefits at the loss of long term ones. But not a bad time to offer the deal admittedly.
An international committee involvement is not a bad idea but it cannot be headed up by someone who is effectively a businessman first, who has sworn allegiance to the country the Palestinians are at war with.
Also, the US vouching to eliminate the Hamas threat if they break the conditions? What qualifies broken conditions? Will a lone wolf attack be sufficient to justify a complete control take over by the US?
Unsurprising to see the European leaders applauding this effort because they have not shown any backbone in the whole conflict until now. This deal has potential if it will be managed by an independent and partial committee but not in this form, and every idiot can see the flaws in it.
An international committee involvement is not a bad idea but it cannot be headed up by someone who is effectively a businessman first, who has sworn allegiance to the country the Palestinians are at war with.
Also, the US vouching to eliminate the Hamas threat if they break the conditions? What qualifies broken conditions? Will a lone wolf attack be sufficient to justify a complete control take over by the US?
Unsurprising to see the European leaders applauding this effort because they have not shown any backbone in the whole conflict until now. This deal has potential if it will be managed by an independent and partial committee but not in this form, and every idiot can see the flaws in it.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
I agree with a lot of that and this deal remains nothing more than an offer until it's accepted by Hamas. The Hamas party line as per always is there has been bad faith in negotiations by the Israelis, like the utterly pointless attempt to take out the Hamas negotiating team in Qatar with a missile strike. I mean if it's a deal there must be an element of diplomacy that has been going on for some time in the background. Apparently, it seems for the longest time there has been deliberate undermining of any attempts at peace negotiations by Israel to keep the war going. Hamas now again says the first heads up they got of this offer was the public announcement.Jequ0n wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 6:45 am This deal sounds a lot like a business take over plan (no surprise there), and based on the little information available I’d be very surprised if the Palestinians accepted it in this form. A list of short term benefits at the loss of long term ones. But not a bad time to offer the deal admittedly.
An international committee involvement is not a bad idea but it cannot be headed up by someone who is effectively a businessman first, who has sworn allegiance to the country the Palestinians are at war with.
Also, the US vouching to eliminate the Hamas threat if they break the conditions? What qualifies broken conditions? Will a lone wolf attack be sufficient to justify a complete control take over by the US?
Unsurprising to see the European leaders applauding this effort because they have not shown any backbone in the whole conflict until now. This deal has potential if it will be managed by an independent and partial committee but not in this form, and every idiot can see the flaws in it.
If Trump tried a similar ruse and announced a deal was done in say the Russian/Ukrainian negotiations, everyone would condemn it as a complete shambles of an effort. Imagine America unilaterally only dealt with Russia, and then in the same way as Hamas are being treated now, they announced a deal has been done without consulting the Ukrainians on terms, you can guarantee Zelensky would continue fighting and completely ignore such a shoddy deal. The Ukrainians would feel like they've been thrown under the bus. Remember the Europeans were aghast last February when Trump cut out both them and the Ukrainians out of the initial attempts at peace summits to end the war in Ukraine last February. Now the Europeans like good little servants unquestioningly accept the same shoddy treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza in exactly the same manner.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm292319gr2o.amp
Without any independent international oversight or outside guarantees, its as bad as any of the previous shaky ceasefire attempts that broke down rapidly once Israel got more hostages back. As you suggest how can anyone guarantee that Israel simply won't make a spurious excuse again to reignite this conflict whenever they feel like it.
If you can't guarantee the genocide or an ethnic cleansing attempt will kick off again in less than 6 months time, then this offer is just window dressing to try to justify the continuation of the current humanitarian nightmare in Gaza.
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
Re: Israel and Palestine
I largely agree but I think that the genocide angle is being overused at this stage. The bigger danger would be the takeover of all controls and operations as soon as it was decided (by who? Trump supposedly) that the conditions has been reached. At this stage the Gazans would end up being entirely governed by martial law by a party that has a vested interest in the region.AnFearRéabhlóideach wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 7:34 am I agree with a lot of that and this deal remains nothing more than an offer until it's accepted by Hamas. The Hamas party line as per always is there has been bad faith in negotiations by the Israelis, like the utterly pointless attempt to take out the Hamas negotiating team in Qatar with a missile strike. I mean if it's a deal there must be an element of diplomacy that has been going on for some time in the background. Apparently, it seems for the longest time there has been deliberate undermining of any attempts at peace negotiations by Israel to keep the war going. Hamas now again says the first heads up they got of this offer was the public announcement.
If Trump tried a similar ruse and announced a deal was done in say the Russian/Ukrainian negotiations, everyone would condemn it as a complete shambles of an effort. Imagine America unilaterally only dealt with Russia, and then in the same way as Hamas are being treated now, they announced a deal has been done without consulting the Ukrainians on terms, you can guarantee Zelensky would continue fighting and completely ignore such a shoddy deal. The Ukrainians would feel like they've been thrown under the bus. Remember the Europeans were aghast last February when Trump cut out both them and the Ukrainians out of the initial attempts at peace summits to end the war in Ukraine last February. Now the Europeans like good little servants unquestioningly accept the same shoddy treatment of the Palestinians in Gaza in exactly the same manner.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm292319gr2o.amp
Without any independent international oversight or outside guarantees, its as bad as any of the previous shaky ceasefire attempts that broke down rapidly once Israel got more hostages back. As you suggest how can anyone guarantee that Israel simply won't make a spurious excuse again to reignite this conflict whenever they feel like it.
If you can't guarantee the genocide or an ethnic cleansing attempt will kick off again in less than 6 months time, then this offer is just window dressing to try to justify the continuation of the current humanitarian nightmare in Gaza.
This is not a deal that can be accepted in this shape or form unless the conditions are outlined very clearly and unmistakably, and I doubt that this will happen. Since Trump always applies the same tactic it will be a take it or leave it opportunity and he’ll react petulantly once the deal gets rejected.
Re: Israel and Palestine
I suspect you're right on Trump's reaction and this might be behind Netanyahu's thinking. He can agree to it in the full knowledge that Hamas will not agree to it, and then thanks to Trump's petulance he will wash his hands of the whole thing, and then Netanyahu has carte blanche from the American's to "finish the job" and do whatever the hell he wants.Jequ0n wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 8:12 am I largely agree but I think that the genocide angle is being overused at this stage. The bigger danger would be the takeover of all controls and operations as soon as it was decided (by who? Trump supposedly) that the conditions has been reached. At this stage the Gazans would end up being entirely governed by martial law by a party that has a vested interest in the region.
This is not a deal that can be accepted in this shape or form unless the conditions are outlined very clearly and unmistakably, and I doubt that this will happen. Since Trump always applies the same tactic it will be a take it or leave it opportunity and he’ll react petulantly once the deal gets rejected.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
I think this article explains the flaws with the alleged deal pretty well.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy4r1xjy90ko.amp
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy4r1xjy90ko.amp
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
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Re: Israel and Palestine
A key issue is the Israeli domestic situation too. Likud is propped up by a coalition of several extremely hard right Zionist parties. Netyenyahoo's efforts to stave off a collapse of this coalition and avoid severe consequences for himself and his ministers has probably been a key factor for the totally unnecessary prolongation of the war in Gaza.schmittel wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 8:23 am I suspect you're right on Trump's reaction and this might be behind Netanyahu's thinking. He can agree to it in the full knowledge that Hamas will not agree to it, and then thanks to Trump's petulance he will wash his hands of the whole thing, and then Netanyahu has carte blanche from the American's to "finish the job" and do whatever the hell he wants.
Speaking from a purely Israeli political perspective, the lurch to the right in Israel and the appeasing of hardliners like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir by Netyenyahoo, has boxed him into an ever tightening political corner that he can't get out of even if he wanted too.
Not that I feel sorry for him. I mean the corruption, the attempts to derail Israel's democracy, the attempts to completely neuter the power of the judiciary, and the attempts to prevent fresh Israeli elections is purely selfish. The emergency powers of a war cabinet have allowed him and the other war criminals to avoid what little oversight there was to carry out this horrific campaign on a largely innocent Palestinian population. I mean the body count alone, an estimated 200,000 Palestinian casualties by the IDF's own admission, suggests a war of extreme waste and total callousness which long term may have only guaranteed a complete lurch to extremist positions on all sides.
Netyenyahoo's paranoia about the ICC arrest warrant was recently evident from his plane's avoidance of flying over European states on his way to the UN General Assembly. I wouldn't put it past him to just renege again on this deal as soon as it's politically expedient to do so to keep saving his and his Zionist buddies heads from the chopping block.
There needs to be outside pressure placed on Netyenyahoo and the boys to make a genuine effort at making a ceasefire and then a peace deal. Really, it's sad to say, the only ones who can actually put on that kind of pressure are the Yanks. Nobody else is going to make an immediate dent on their war effort and unfortunately the Yanks seem only too happy to let Uncle Bibi keep blowing up innocent civilians and razing Gaza off the map on whatever flimsy pretext they use.
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Deleted
Last edited by Clanrickard on Tue Sep 30, 2025 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
That sums it up nicely.AnFearRéabhlóideach wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 9:03 am A key issue is the Israeli domestic situation too. Likud is propped up by a coalition of several extremely hard right Zionist parties. Netyenyahoo's efforts to stave off a collapse of this coalition and avoid severe consequences for himself and his ministers has probably been a key factor for the totally unnecessary prolongation of the war in Gaza.
Speaking from a purely Israeli political perspective, the lurch to the right in Israel and the appeasing of hardliners like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir by Netyenyahoo, has boxed him into an ever tightening political corner that he can't get out of even if he wanted too.
Not that I feel sorry for him. I mean the corruption, the attempts to derail Israel's democracy, the attempts to completely neuter the power of the judiciary, and the attempts to prevent fresh Israeli elections is purely selfish. The emergency powers of a war cabinet have allowed him and the other war criminals to avoid what little oversight there was to carry out this horrific campaign on a largely innocent Palestinian population. I mean the body count alone, an estimated 200,000 Palestinian casualties by the IDF's own admission, suggests a war of extreme waste and total callousness which long term may have only guaranteed a complete lurch to extremist positions on all sides.
Netyenyahoo's paranoia about the ICC arrest warrant was recently evident from his plane's avoidance of flying over European states on his way to the UN General Assembly. I wouldn't put it past him to just renege again on this deal as soon as it's politically expedient to do so to keep saving his and his Zionist buddies heads from the chopping block.
There needs to be outside pressure placed on Netyenyahoo and the boys to make a genuine effort at making a ceasefire and then a peace deal. Really, it's sad to say, the only ones who can actually put on that kind of pressure are the Yanks. Nobody else is going to make an immediate dent on their war effort and unfortunately the Yanks seem only too happy to let Uncle Bibi keep blowing up innocent civilians and razing Gaza off the map on whatever flimsy pretext they use.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Thanks for the good wishes. Took a hiatus from P.ie months ago and then saw it was down. I'd say we have a few P.ie refugees over here.AnFearRéabhlóideach wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 7:01 pm Clan you're alive. Jaysus it's good to see more friendly faces round here after politics.ie imploded last month. Our old buddy, old pal, Cattlepest is lurking around here somewhere too. Good to see you're in good form.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Oh it shows!Clanrickard wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 12:47 pm Thanks for the good wishes. Took a hiatus from P.ie months ago and then saw it was down. I'd say we have a few P.ie refugees over here.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
No bother. It's nice to have a spot to debate others and get a different perspective rather than the social media bubbles that have developed in recent times. Yeah I hope that's the case too. Maybe a few more will make the swap over because I think it's looking like politics.ie is permanently gone now whatever happened to it.Clanrickard wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 12:47 pm Thanks for the good wishes. Took a hiatus from P.ie months ago and then saw it was down. I'd say we have a few P.ie refugees over here.
Last edited by AnFearRéabhlóideach on Tue Sep 30, 2025 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Senator Donie Cassidy, Seanad Debate, 10th April 2008
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
"[House] prices are now nearing the bottom end......Now is the right time to buy."
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Trump has been getting on great with the Arab countries during his presidency, signing historic accords.Jequ0n wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 6:45 am This deal sounds a lot like a business take over plan (no surprise there), and based on the little information available I’d be very surprised if the Palestinians accepted it in this form. A list of short term benefits at the loss of long term ones. But not a bad time to offer the deal admittedly.
An international committee involvement is not a bad idea but it cannot be headed up by someone who is effectively a businessman first, who has sworn allegiance to the country the Palestinians are at war with.
Also, the US vouching to eliminate the Hamas threat if they break the conditions? What qualifies broken conditions? Will a lone wolf attack be sufficient to justify a complete control take over by the US?
Unsurprising to see the European leaders applauding this effort because they have not shown any backbone in the whole conflict until now. This deal has potential if it will be managed by an independent and partial committee but not in this form, and every idiot can see the flaws in it.
This isn’t a regular deal between two equal parties. This is a surrender proposal that that gives Hamas everything they ask for, except the destruction of Israel. International security forces will be the security, it will not be Trump alone, it will be a council, only until such a time that elections can happen. It is being proposed by the US, the country that has helped Palestine the most with international aid during its existence.
Trump recently went against Netanyahu and said he won’t allow them to annex any of the West Bank.
A peace deal is on the table ready for Hamas to accept, to relieve the suffering of the Palestinian people, that the new government of the new country of Palestine agree to, Abbas and the PLO and we have the Hamas mouthpieces in here saying the Israelis and the US won’t hold their word.
Hamas have no choice, if they don’t surrender Gaza will be further demolished and they will be removed one way or another.
Now is their time to surrender.
If this is all a ruse to attain something else, they can also attain it by destroying Hamas and just taking it. There is no reason for Hamas not to surrender.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Hamas said they would “never surrender” until they see the destruction of Israel. No need to guess, no need to infer just look for yourself. Nothing to do with believing Trump or Netanyahu, they simply want the destruction of Israel and won’t surrender until then.schmittel wrote: ↑Tue Sep 30, 2025 8:23 am I suspect you're right on Trump's reaction and this might be behind Netanyahu's thinking. He can agree to it in the full knowledge that Hamas will not agree to it, and then thanks to Trump's petulance he will wash his hands of the whole thing, and then Netanyahu has carte blanche from the American's to "finish the job" and do whatever the hell he wants.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Everyone was calling for the recognition of Palestine as a country, well now they have it they have to play by the rules?
Britain, France, Australia all the countries that recognized Palestine said Hamas can have no future in Gaza. The US and Israel agree. Everyone in the world agrees, except Hamas and their supporters.
Especially the poor people of Palestine that have been living under the iron fist of Hamas since 2006.
If Hamas refuse and decide to keep fighting the people who suffer the most are the innocent civilians of Gaza. I don’t want that but it’ll have to happen to destroy Hamas.
Britain, France, Australia all the countries that recognized Palestine said Hamas can have no future in Gaza. The US and Israel agree. Everyone in the world agrees, except Hamas and their supporters.
Especially the poor people of Palestine that have been living under the iron fist of Hamas since 2006.
If Hamas refuse and decide to keep fighting the people who suffer the most are the innocent civilians of Gaza. I don’t want that but it’ll have to happen to destroy Hamas.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Saw this elsewhere, just too good.
Can anyone answer this? The people using the word genocide perhaps? Schrodinger’s genocide.
Can anyone answer this? The people using the word genocide perhaps? Schrodinger’s genocide.
Whereas what you need to explain is how come the side supposedly committing a genocide has agreed to immediately end operations, offering major concessions, while the side supposedly suffering a genocide still needs to think about it.
Credit @volchitsamean, the idea that a people being genocided would have the choice to say “We’re not sure we like those conditions, maybe we might prefer for you to continue genociding us a bit longer until we can force you to give us better conditions” is just bonkers.
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Re: Israel and Palestine
Details of the 20 point plan. Who would choose genocide over a peace plan? A terrorist organization bent on the destruction of Israel, that’s who.
- 1. Gaza will be a deradicalised terror-free zone that does not pose a threat to its neighbours
2. Gaza will be redeveloped for the benefit of the people of Gaza, who have suffered more than enough.
3. If both sides agree to this proposal, the war will immediately end. Israeli forces will withdraw to the agreed upon line to prepare for a hostage release. During this time, all military operations, including aerial and artillery bombardment, will be suspended, and battle lines will remain frozen until conditions are met for the complete staged withdrawal.
4. Within 72 hours of Israel publicly accepting this agreement, all hostages, alive and deceased, will be returned.
5. Once all hostages are released, Israel will release 250 life sentence prisoners plus 1,700 Gazans who were detained after 7 October 2023, including all women and children detained in that context. For every Israeli hostage whose remains are released, Israel will release the remains of 15 deceased Gazans.
6. Once all hostages are returned, Hamas members who commit to peaceful co-existence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty. Members of Hamas who wish to leave Gaza will be provided safe passage to receiving countries.
7. Upon acceptance of this agreement, full aid will be immediately sent into the Gaza Strip. At a minimum, aid quantities will be consistent with what was included in the 19 January 2025 agreement regarding humanitarian aid, including rehabilitation of infrastructure (water, electricity, sewage), rehabilitation of hospitals and bakeries, and entry of necessary equipment to remove rubble and open roads.
8. Entry of distribution and aid in the Gaza Strip will proceed without interference from the two parties through the United Nations and its agencies, and the Red Crescent, in addition to other international institutions not associated in any manner with either party. Opening the Rafah crossing in both directions will be subject to the same mechanism implemented under 19 January 2025 agreement.
9. Gaza will be governed under the temporary transitional governance of a technocratic, apolitical Palestinian committee, responsible for delivering the day-to-day running of public services and municipalities for the people in Gaza. This committee will be made up of qualified Palestinians and international experts, with oversight and supervision by a new international transitional body, the "Board of Peace," which will be headed and chaired by President Donald J. Trump, with other members and heads of state to be announced, including Former Prime Minister Tony Blair. This body will set the framework and handle the funding for the redevelopment of Gaza until such time as the Palestinian Authority has completed its reform programme, as outlined in various proposals, including President Trump's peace plan in 2020 and the Saudi-French proposal, and can securely and effectively take back control of Gaza. This body will call on best international standards to create modern and efficient governance that serves the people of Gaza and is conducive to attracting investment.
10. A Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energise Gaza will be created by convening a panel of experts who have helped birth some of the thriving modern miracle cities in the Middle East. Many thoughtful investment proposals and exciting development ideas have been crafted by well-meaning international groups, and will be considered to synthesize the security and governance frameworks to attract and facilitate these investments that will create jobs, opportunity, and hope for future Gaza.
11. A special economic zone will be established with preferred tariff and access rates to be negotiated with participating countries.
12. No one will be forced to leave Gaza, and those who wish to leave will be free to do so and free to return. We will encourage people to stay and offer them the opportunity to build a better Gaza.
13. Hamas and other factions agree to not have any role in the governance of Gaza, directly, indirectly, or in any form. All military, terror, and offensive infrastructure, including tunnels and weapon production facilities, will be destroyed and not rebuilt. There will be a process of demilitarisation of Gaza under the supervision of independent monitors, which will include placing weapons permanently beyond use through an agreed process of decommissioning, and supported by an internationally funded buy back and reintegration programme all verified by the independent monitors. New Gaza will be fully committed to building a prosperous economy and to peaceful coexistence with their neighbours.
14. A guarantee will be provided by regional partners to ensure that Hamas, and the factions, comply with their obligations and that New Gaza poses no threat to its neighbours or its people.
15. The United States will work with Arab and international partners to develop a temporary International Stabilisation Force (ISF) to immediately deploy in Gaza. The ISF will train and provide support to vetted Palestinian police forces in Gaza, and will consult with Jordan and Egypt who have extensive experience in this field. This force will be the long-term internal security solution. The ISF will work with Israel and Egypt to help secure border areas, along with newly trained Palestinian police forces. It is critical to prevent munitions from entering Gaza and to facilitate the rapid and secure flow of goods to rebuild and revitalize Gaza. A deconfliction mechanism will be agreed upon by the parties.
16. Israel will not occupy or annex Gaza. As the ISF establishes control and stability, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) will withdraw based on standards, milestones, and timeframes linked to demilitarization that will be agreed upon between the IDF, ISF, the guarantors, and the Unites States, with the objective of a secure Gaza that no longer poses a threat to Israel, Egypt, or its citizens. Practically, the IDF will progressively hand over the Gaza territory it occupies to the ISF according to an agreement they will make with the transitional authority until they are withdrawn completely from Gaza, save for a security perimeter presence that will remain until Gaza is properly secure from any resurgent terror threat.
17. In the event Hamas delays or rejects this proposal, the above, including the scaled-up aid operation, will proceed in the terror-free areas handed over from the IDF to the ISF.
18. An interfaith dialogue process will be established based on the values of tolerance and peaceful co-existence to try and change mindsets and narratives of Palestinians and Israelis by emphasizing the benefits that can be derived from peace.
19. While Gaza re-development advances and when the PA reform programme is faithfully carried out, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood, which we recognise as the aspiration of the Palestinian people.
20. The United States will establish a dialogue between Israel and the Palestinians to agree on a political horizon for peaceful and prosperous co-existence.