Birmingham bans Tel Aviv Supporters

[ceannairceach]

That's right. Shoot the messenger.

Yeah I’m not biting with that one.

[ceannairceach]

There is a strong argument to separate sports/ public entertainment events from politics. If the atmosphere is too heavily influenced by ideology sports arenas just become another political battleground, and lose their original purpose.

Liew is the wrong person for that as he has openly called for men in women’s sports and said “I don’t care” about the women being at best disadvantaged and at worst harmed.

[knownunknown]

Worth a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-like-now

None of this explains on its own the decision by West Midlands police to ban travelling Maccabi fans from their Europa League game against Aston Villa

The most important sentence.

[knownunknown]

No doubt some people are genuinely concerned about the visiting Jews from Tel Aviv and their safety but a majority of people are using this as a veil to hide their anti semitism. A lot of people see this as a win, banning Jews wherever and whenever they can.

It’s like if I said I didn’t want women to go out at night in short dresses, even if I said I wanted it for their safety, it would still be wrong to limit the freedom of someone just because I think it makes them more safe. It would be even more wrong if there were large sections of society calling for women to stay home at night because they just hate women and would like to see them punished.

Tel Aviv and their supporters are being pre emptively punished and no one even disputes this.

[knownunknown]

I made this point on the other site and was roundly mocked yet it is true and I saw it with my own eyes / there are streets in both Bolton in the North of England and in Handsworth and Aston in Birmingham where there are signs at either end of the street with (at the time) Bangladeshi and Pakistan flags (likely replaced by Hamas and that Palestinian rag now) and signs saying “You are now entering a Sharia Law controlled area”.

As you say that’s with a 6% Muslim population. Given the most popular boys name for years in the UK has been Mohammed (and only that spelling - add in the alternative spellings and the numbers are higher) what will the percentage be in a generation?? What will the effect be ?

Answer - not good, and I’m glad I won’t be around to see it.

I was working in Thailand around ~2004 and it was a crazy time there. They were experiencing a lot of bombings due to Islamic separatism. They wanted an Islamic state in the south of Thailand. The government had to enact emergency legislation where it could detain anyone they wanted without charges.

They also have a lot of Israelis going on holiday there at any one time. I remember speaking to some there, it became a sort of passage for many to finish their military training and take a holiday in Thailand after. Of course there is threats of terrorism and warnings from the Thai government.

https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/destin ... 0provinces.

It needs to be said that Islam is much more than just a religion, it is a political force and their holy book dictates nearly every aspect of their lives.
Wherever there is a large Muslim population there is also an effort to create a separatist state by violent means.

Are Muslims inherently bad and evil? Of course not, they are just like you or me. The difference is the ones who take their teachings seriously, when this happens it can lead to a teacher being publicly decapitated at school. I can hear many people screaming while reading this, “but it’s just the extremists ones”. But it’s not though, 8 people were implicated in the murder of Samuel Paty that included a primary school student who lied, her parents who got crazy about it and the people who helped him spread it on social media. Were they all extremists? No.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2nd5d51rxo

[ceannairceach]

I was working in Thailand around ~2004 and it was a crazy time there. They were experiencing a lot of bombings due to Islamic separatism. They wanted an Islamic state in the south of Thailand. The government had to enact emergency legislation where it could detain anyone they wanted without charges.

They also have a lot of Israelis going on holiday there at any one time. I remember speaking to some there, it became a sort of passage for many to finish their military training and take a holiday in Thailand after. Of course there is threats of terrorism and warnings from the Thai government.

https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/destin ... 0provinces.

It needs to be said that Islam is much more than just a religion, it is a political force and their holy book dictates nearly every aspect of their lives.
Wherever there is a large Muslim population there is also an effort to create a separatist state by violent means.

Are Muslims inherently bad and evil? Of course not, they are just like you or me. The difference is the ones who take their teachings seriously, when this happens it can lead to a teacher being publicly decapitated at school. I can hear many people screaming while reading this, “but it’s just the extremists ones”. But it’s not though, 8 people were implicated in the murder of Samuel Paty that included a primary school student who lied, her parents who got crazy about it and the people who helped him spread it on social media. Were they all extremists? No.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2nd5d51rxo

An extremist Muslim carries out the atrocities, a strict Muslim helps them and the rest of them agree silently.

[Bubblypop]

No doubt some people are genuinely concerned about the visiting Jews from Tel Aviv and their safety but a majority of people are using this as a veil to hide their anti semitism. A lot of people see this as a win, banning Jews wherever and whenever they can.

It’s like if I said I didn’t want women to go out at night in short dresses, even if I said I wanted it for their safety, it would still be wrong to limit the freedom of someone just because I think it makes them more safe. It would be even more wrong if there were large sections of society calling for women to stay home at night because they just hate women and would like to see them punished.

Tel Aviv and their supporters are being pre emptively punished and no one even disputes this.

What majority? Not in here I assume?
I think you picked the ring analogy there, women's clothes have nothing to do with why they are assaulted.

[Bubblypop]

An extremist Muslim carries out the atrocities, a strict Muslim helps them and the rest of them agree silently.

I guess you presume everyone to be anti semetic because you assume they are like you.
Most people can separate the actions of some, and not generalise Against billions of people of the same religion.

[Clanrickard]

Worth a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-like-now

Got as far as this........"Many Maccabi fans will doubtless have travelled to Birmingham with the sole intention of watching a game of football. But it takes a certain wilful blindness to ignore the likelihood that a significant number will have had other intentions in mind." Bullshit. nad then there was this........"Traditionally Maccabi teams were associated with the right; Hapoel with the left." In fact Maccabi Haifa have the largest following amongst Arab Israelis. Furthermore apart from Amsterdam where did Tel Aviv fans cause trouble?

[Statsman]

Got as far as this........"Many Maccabi fans will doubtless have travelled to Birmingham with the sole intention of watching a game of football. But it takes a certain wilful blindness to ignore the likelihood that a significant number will have had other intentions in mind." Bullshit. nad then there was this........"Traditionally Maccabi teams were associated with the right; Hapoel with the left." In fact Maccabi Haifa have the largest following amongst Arab Israelis. Furthermore apart from Amsterdam where did Tel Aviv fans cause trouble?

Try reading to the end:

Choosing to stand with the far-right foreign football hooligan against the local police force: this, apparently, is what British patriotism looks like in 2025. Truly, we are through the looking-glass here.

[Clanrickard]

Try reading to the end:

No I read to the end. He's plain wrong. If Robinson is going to cause trouble then that ending makes sense. If is going to peacefully express solidarity that is a different thing. Either way the use of Tommy Robinson is a red herring. It is a sneaky sleight of hand. A nod and wink to the biens pensents who read the Guardian. The crux of the issue is the police have pandered to threats from Islamists.

[12gauge dave]

Surely the English police can manage to police a football Match?

They've been doing it in every city and town in England every weekend for decades?.

[Bubblypop]

Surely the English police can manage to police a football Match?

They've been doing it in every city and town in England every weekend for decades?.

Which is why I would take what they decide as good enough reason. They have the experience. They do the risk assessments. If they decide to stop one set of fans travelling, then that should be good enough

[Statsman]

Which is why I would take what they decide as good enough reason. They have the experience. They do the risk assessments. If they decide to stop one set of fans travelling, then that should be good enough

It really is that simple. Let the police do their work without political interference.

[knownunknown]

Tel Aviv have already said their fans won’t attend even if the Uk reverse the decision and that they respect the decision is made out of safety.

I think this is them just saying “we don’t want to cause trouble” and we accept that we will be attacked if we attend and the police cannot guarantee our safety.

Tel Aviv have among their team, Christians, Muslims and Jews. They have supporters who are christians, Muslims and Jews.

This is a horrible precedent to be set, it encourages and is an incentive for fans to be violent against travelling away supporters because then those supporters will get banned from future games. When did we start blaming the victim? Surprised so many are ok with it, but for some it’s just a way to veil their anti semitism.

[Jequ0n]

Tel Aviv have already said their fans won’t attend even if the Uk reverse the decision and that they respect the decision is made out of safety.

I think this is them just saying “we don’t want to cause trouble” and we accept that we will be attacked if we attend and the police cannot guarantee our safety.

Tel Aviv have among their team, Christians, Muslims and Jews. They have supporters who are christians, Muslims and Jews.

This is a horrible precedent to be set, it encourages and is an incentive for fans to be violent against travelling away supporters because then those supporters will get banned from future games. When did we start blaming the victim? Surprised so many are ok with it, but for some it’s just a way to veil their anti semitism.

The travel ban was issued for all visiting fans of the club, not just the Jewish ones. Had it been aimed at Jewish visitors only I’d get the antisemitism argument but that’s simply not the case.

[knownunknown]

The travel ban was issued for all visiting fans of the club, not just the Jewish ones. Had it been aimed at Jewish visitors only I’d get the antisemitism argument but that’s simply not the case.

Israel is a Jewish state and many people don’t even know how many Arabs and Muslims live there. Especially the ones calling Israel’s actions a genocide and their state apartheid. They aren’t being banned for anything they did wrong, but because the police can’t guarantee their safety.

There are many celebrating this as a win, by those trying to get Israel banned from the Eurovision, by those trying to get a boycott on Israeli goods and those who threatened any Jews arriving in Birmingham who would be shown “no mercy”

They’re happy to hurt other people in their pursuit of Jews because to them they are Jewish collaborators and these people are just as bad.

Here’s one example of dozens I’ve seen.

[Jequ0n]

Israel is a Jewish state and many people don’t even know how many Arabs and Muslims live there. Especially the ones calling Israel’s actions a genocide and their state apartheid. They aren’t being banned for anything they did wrong, but because the police can’t guarantee their safety.

There are many celebrating this as a win, by those trying to get Israel banned from the Eurovision, by those trying to get a boycott on Israeli goods and those who threatened any Jews arriving in Birmingham who would be shown “no mercy”

They’re happy to hurt other people in their pursuit of Jews because to them they are Jewish collaborators and these people are just as bad.

Here’s one example of dozens I’ve seen.

I don’t see any antisemitism in this video. I see a politician who is incapable of making a consistent argument but at no point does he overstep the mark to venture into anything that could be classified as antisemitism.
If any criticism of Israel gets labelled as antisemitic it makes a mockery out of genuine antisemitism.

[knownunknown]

I don’t see any antisemitism in this video. I see a politician who is incapable of making a consistent argument but at no point does he overstep the mark to venture into anything that could be classified as antisemitism.
If any criticism of Israel gets labelled as antisemitic it makes a mockery out of genuine antisemitism.

No it’s not apparent in this video, it is veiled anti semitism as I already noted. If he was openly anti semitic on t.v. he would lose his job. He resigned from his party last year, the Lib Dems, because they told him to take anti semitism training. He declined. He has denied the atrocities of Oct. 7th. Lisa Nandy,(labour) said he does nothing for the Palestinian cause by aligning himself with antisemites.

What does anti semitism look like in practise? It’s the exclusion of Jews and with this ban it has already started. This is a dangerous precedent to set and may alleviate some violence in the short term but in the long term this is the beginning of a whole new set of problems.

I can understand the people, such as yourself, who made a point of noting that even though they agreed with the safety concerns, the implementation was clearly unfair and should probably be played at a neutral ground or behind closed doors. I can understand this position has nothing to do with anti semitism.

[Bubblypop]

No it’s not apparent in this video, it is veiled anti semitism as I already noted. If he was openly anti semitic on t.v. he would lose his job. He resigned from his party last year, the Lib Dems, because they told him to take anti semitism training. He declined. He has denied the atrocities of Oct. 7th. Lisa Nandy,(labour) said he does nothing for the Palestinian cause by aligning himself with antisemites.

What does anti semitism look like in practise? It’s the exclusion of Jews and with this ban it has already started. This is a dangerous precedent to set and may alleviate some violence in the short term but in the long term this is the beginning of a whole new set of problems.

I can understand the people, such as yourself, who made a point of noting that even though they agreed with the safety concerns, the implementation was clearly unfair and should probably be played at a neutral ground or behind closed doors. I can understand this position has nothing to do with anti semitism.

'It’s the exclusion of Jews and with this ban it has already started'

As you pointed out yourself, Israel is not just Jewish people, the football team and it's fans inckude different religions.
It's not exclusion of Jews, it's exclusion of fans of a team based on risk assessments from police, who are doing these for decades.
It reads like you want it to go ahead and for trouble to happen.

[knownunknown]

'It’s the exclusion of Jews and with this ban it has already started'

As you pointed out yourself, Israel is not just Jewish people, the football team and it's fans inckude different religions.
It's not exclusion of Jews, it's exclusion of fans of a team based on risk assessments from police, who are doing these for decades.
It reads like you want it to go ahead and for trouble to happen.

The war in Gaza is a war against Jews, make no mistake about it. These fights are all a part of the propaganda war. The visiting fans were barred because the politicians and the imam’s were inciting violence before hand. That’s the evidence the police have and it will come out.

Aston Villa fan and JC Director Lord Austin said: “It is absolutely staggering that two members of the body that decided to exclude Israeli fans from coming to Villa Park were enthusiastic supporters of boycotting Israel from football. Were decisions really made on public safety grounds or in pursuit of an anti-Israel campaign?”

This is what Lord Mann said who is the independent advisor to UK government on antisemitism .

“It's an absurd decision and I am expecting and anticipating this decision will be changed."

"The police have cited intelligence that they have, there is no intelligence that exists that there are specific problems either from Maccabi Tel Aviv fans or Aston Villa fans, that intelligence doesn't exist," he explained.

"The intelligence that exists is in relation to people like that MP, who've been saying some very over the top things, trying to stop a football match taking place."

He added: "I've dealt with both clubs on this, not in the last few days, but over the last few months since this fixture was agreed, both with Maccabi Tel Aviv and Aston Villa, they're both very well run clubs."

[Jequ0n]

The war in Gaza is a war against Jews, make no mistake about it. These fights are all a part of the propaganda war. The visiting fans were barred because the politicians and the imam’s were inciting violence before hand. That’s the evidence the police have and it will come out.

Aston Villa fan and JC Director Lord Austin said: “It is absolutely staggering that two members of the body that decided to exclude Israeli fans from coming to Villa Park were enthusiastic supporters of boycotting Israel from football. Were decisions really made on public safety grounds or in pursuit of an anti-Israel campaign?”

This is what Lord Mann said who is the independent advisor to UK government on antisemitism .

“It's an absurd decision and I am expecting and anticipating this decision will be changed."

"The police have cited intelligence that they have, there is no intelligence that exists that there are specific problems either from Maccabi Tel Aviv fans or Aston Villa fans, that intelligence doesn't exist," he explained.

"The intelligence that exists is in relation to people like that MP, who've been saying some very over the top things, trying to stop a football match taking place."

He added: "I've dealt with both clubs on this, not in the last few days, but over the last few months since this fixture was agreed, both with Maccabi Tel Aviv and Aston Villa, they're both very well run clubs."

The war in Gaza is not simply about Jews. It’s about decades of incompetent governing and this bull blown crisis was always going to happen at some stage.
Did or do you oppose sanctions against Russia or their athletes, artists or other prominent figures to be excluded from events and competitions?
Were you in favour of the boycott of the World Cup in Qatar? Lots of people were in favour of having this event cancelled or relocated, too.
These types of protests happen a lot, not just where Israel is involved.
And no, the British tax payer is facing more tax increases as it is, and nobody has any interest in their money being used for extra security just because an event involves a team from a country that is engaged in the biggest conflict of the year.

[knownunknown]

The war in Gaza is not simply about Jews. It’s about decades of incompetent governing and this bull blown crisis was always going to happen at some stage.
Did or do you oppose sanctions against Russia or their athletes, artists or other prominent figures to be excluded from events and competitions?
Were you in favour of the boycott of the World Cup in Qatar? Lots of people were in favour of having this event cancelled or relocated, too.
These types of protests happen a lot, not just where Israel is involved.
And no, the British tax payer is facing more tax increases as it is, and nobody has any interest in their money being used for extra security just because an event involves a team from a country that is engaged in the biggest conflict of the year.

Engaged in eh? If Russian athletes are banned from sport so should Palestinian athletes since they are the ones that started the war. If you want to ban Israeli athletes you should also ban Ukrainians who saw their country invaded by savages.

The moral equivalence between Russia and Israel is absurd, the better equivalence would be Russia and Palestinians who both invaded another country. The Israelis were able to repel the Palestinians quicker and bring the fight to them, but make no mistake if Ukraine had the means it would have repelled Russia quicker and taken the fight to Moscow in return.

[Jequ0n]

Engaged in eh? If Russian athletes are banned from sport so should Palestinian athletes since they are the ones that started the war. If you want to ban Israeli athletes you should also ban Ukrainians who saw their country invaded by savages.

The moral equivalence between Russia and Israel is absurd, the better equivalence would be Russia and Palestinians who both invaded another country.

Yes, I agree. Ukrainians should be banned from such events too because any conflict of such high magnitude has the potential to cause disruption. Another nation that has cemented the eternal victim card which I have always taken issue with.

[knownunknown]

Yes, I agree. Ukrainians should be banned from such events too because any conflict of such high magnitude has the potential to cause disruption. Another nation that has cemented the eternal victim card which I have always taken issue with.

You’re consistent at least, many of those veiling their antisemitism are regularly inconsistent in what they say.