Israel and Palestine

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

Good to see another politics.ie refugee here Starry.

[StarryPlough01]

ANF,

The 'Peace' Plan is a bunch of BS. Trump's threat of annihilation to make Hamas accept it

[StarryPlough01]

Good to see another politics.ie refugee here Starry.

ANF, Thank you for the welcome. I'm trying to become familiar with the software. I'm grateful it's more user friendly than I expected.

[knownunknown]

Anything is better than genocide though. If they want to go back to fighting that is fine too. I d like to see the Hamas members get destroyed for what they did and not allowed to go free like is offered in the deal. I just hate the thought of all the dead civilians.

Doesn’t really matter, either way Hamas will be gone, the only difference is how many dead civilians.

[knownunknown]

Hamas killed thousands of civilians and took hundreds hostage and still hold them hostage, yet you guys expect Israel to make peace with Hamas.

You say Hamas should’t make peace with Israel because Trump and Netanyahu aren’t be trusted…

When Hamas reject this deal and you guys go back to talking about genocide everyday I won’t let you guys forget what you have said over the last two days.

[StarryPlough01]

ANF said:

Anything is better than genocide though. If they want to go back to fighting that is fine too. I d like to see the Hamas members get destroyed for what they did and not allowed to go free like is offered in the deal. I just hate the thought of all the dead civilians.

Doesn’t really matter, either way Hamas will be gone, the only difference is how many dead civilians.

ANF,

This Peace Plan won’t stop the genocide. In fact, it gives Israel every excuse and opportunity to continue the genocide.

[knownunknown]

ANF said:


ANF,

This Peace Plan won’t stop the genocide. In fact, it gives Israel every excuse and opportunity to continue the genocide.

Yes exactly. If they don’t surrender they will be destroyed and probably take half of Gaza with them. Now is the chance to surrender.

They get amnesty, the release of hostages, end to war, provisions for supplies, and a path towards sovereignty. Most world leaders have backed the plan including from the Middle East.

If they don’t surrender they will get destroyed. That’s fair terms.

What do you think the innocent civilians of Gaza think about this? I’ll tell you, they want the peace deal and they want Hamas to accept it. Whatever delusion yourself and others hold about the destruction of Israel, they are fanciful and not realistic and just leads to the death of thousands of Palestinians.

Palestinian journalist Fathi Sabah said: "A Hamas rejection, god forbid, would mean giving Netanyahu a green light to continue the war with American and Western backing, to destroy what remains of Gaza and the central region."
"The people of Gaza cannot bear that. They are devastated, exhausted, desperate and hopeless," he said.
"They want a ceasefire now, not tomorrow, at any cost, even though they know the plan serves Netanyahu's interests, is full of pitfalls, and does not reflect their aspirations," he added

Anything is better than genocide, though, right?

If Hamas accept these terms and Israel turns around and continues to “genocide” I will join your cause immediately along with the rest of the world in condemning Israel, I promise you that.

[knownunknown]

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

Yes exactly. If they don’t surrender they will be destroyed and probably take half of Gaza with them. Now is the chance to surrender.

They get amnesty, the release of hostages, end to war, provisions for supplies, and a path towards sovereignty. Most world leaders have backed the plan including from the Middle East.

If they don’t surrender they will get destroyed. That’s fair terms.

What do you think the innocent civilians of Gaza think about this? I’ll tell you, they want the peace deal and they want Hamas to accept it. Whatever delusion yourself and others hold about the destruction of Israel, they are fanciful and not realistic and just leads to the death of thousands of Palestinians.

Palestinian journalist Fathi Sabah said: "A Hamas rejection, god forbid, would mean giving Netanyahu a green light to continue the war with American and Western backing, to destroy what remains of Gaza and the central region."
"The people of Gaza cannot bear that. They are devastated, exhausted, desperate and hopeless," he said.
"They want a ceasefire now, not tomorrow, at any cost, even though they know the plan serves Netanyahu's interests, is full of pitfalls, and does not reflect their aspirations," he added

Anything is better than genocide, though, right?

If Hamas accept these terms and Israel turns around and continues to “genocide” I will join your cause immediately along with the rest of the world in condemning Israel, I promise you that.

Yeah we've heard all that Hasbara slop before. This ultimatum that was made unilaterally between the Yanks and Uncle Bibi is no guarantee of any end to anything. Hamas have seen several prior ceasefire agreements being breached and broken by Israel's disingenuous leadership. I mean it's so difficult for them to trust what the other side is saying to them that they only way to get some kind of reasonable end to this is to call a ceasefire immediately and at least start by treating the civilians of Gaza fairly i.e guarantee food, water, medical aid and shelter the basics to survive. Then you might get some elements of the Gaza population who will begin to see at least some point in stopping the fighting and establishing some tiny semblance of trust with this Israeli government after their 2 year mass murder campaign.

Do you realise that what you're suggesting is let's use the 2 million innocent human beings in Gaza as hostages that we can kill or attack whenever we want, to force an already spent terrorist/resistance movement to give up? That's some of the sickest logic that I have heard yet to justify continuing this genocide by the Zionist fanatics.

Netyenyahoo and the boys have created an entire new generation of recruits and future soldiers for the next Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad movement by this endless slaughter. Pointless bloodshed unless their goal is to reach the goal of ethnically cleansing Gaza completely as Ben-Gvir and Smotrich have advocated all along.

It's like the reprisals and state terror that the Nazis implemented against resistance movements across Europe during WW2. You're using the logic of Lidice, Ordur-sur-Glane, or the reprisals against thousands of Poles who took part in the Warsaw Rising. That's your logic, state terrorism, collective punishment and keep on adding to that very long list of war crimes that the Israeli military forces have accrued since this conflict began. The Jewish people of Israel should use the very same tactics of the very state that persecuted the people of their religion the most, that's beyond effed up. Where is humanity at when we have propaganda like that being thrown at us as justification for continuing this humanitarian nightmare?

If Hamas give up and then Gaza gets ethnically cleansed in six months, everyone will be well you should have never have trusted them. If they continue, the slaughter and ethnic cleansing continues regardless. Those are both equally terrible options for any sort of peace arrangement, that's besides the fact it's an ultimatum. The Palestinian civilians nor Hamas wouldn't trust a single word that comes out the mouths of anyone that has being associated with this Zionist regime intent on destroying them for the past 2 years. Who could blame them?

This offer is worth nothing if there is no pressure being brought to bear on Netyenyahoo and the pro-genocide nut cases in his government to actually stick to it. How do the people of Gaza even begin to process the inhumanity of the regime that rains bombs on them. Starves them. Destroys almost every square centimetre of earth around them. That's your best response to justify giving up. Sign it ot we'll continue acting like the effing Nazis and continue collectively destroying a population of 2 million human beings. Just stop. Look in the mirror pal. This has gone too far. Just look at them as human beings not expendable pawns in a board game.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidice_massacre

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour ... e_massacre

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_Warsaw

[ceannairceach]

Exactly.

[Guburnor]

Flotilla still floating. Currently about 70 nautical miles from Gaza

Live stream for anybody interested:

[ceannairceach]

Flotilla still floating. Currently about 70 nautical miles from Gaza

Live stream for anybody interested:

Interesting…

[knownunknown]

Flotilla still floating. Currently about 70 nautical miles from Gaza

Live stream for anybody interested:

I’ve seen reports they were intercepted by the Israelis. Just had a look there only two cameras active there used to be about a dozen or so I think ?

[knownunknown]

Three Hamas members arrested in Germany for terrorist plot. Scumbags I hope they rot in jail. If they wanted to fight the IDF is ready in Gaza.
Such cowards.

Of course today is the holiest day of the year for the Jews, Yom Kippur, no doubt the flotillas arrival on this day was not a coincidence. Everytime in their history they have been attacked on this day, when they fast.

[schmittel]

Sinn Fein say Chris Andrews has been detained:



Obviously the government are no supporters of the Shinners in any shape or form, but surely this is not a good look and deserves some sort of diplomatic response.

[ceannairceach]

Three Hamas members arrested in Germany for terrorist plot. Scumbags I hope they rot in jail. If they wanted to fight the IDF is ready in Gaza.
Such cowards.

Of course today is the holiest day of the year for the Jews, Yom Kippur, no doubt the flotillas arrival on this day was not a coincidence. Everytime in their history they have been attacked on this day, when they fast.

But they’ll whine and tell you it’s not about antisemitism….

[StarryPlough01]

Soumaya Ghannoushi, a writer and expert in Middle East politics, here:




“Trump's 20-point plan for 'peace' is a call for Palestinian surrender”

By Mohamad Elmasry (Professor of Media Studies at the Doha Institute for Graduate Studies)
1 October 2025 11:40 BST | 
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/t ... poi2hw2sSt

“At the same time, Israel is given wide latitude: its withdrawal is left open-ended, tied only to vague conditions, while its troops will remain in a large "security perimeter" inside Gaza, and any prospect of Palestinian statehood is pushed indefinitely into the future.

“Taken together, the plan's provisions function as a blueprint for Israel's Greater Israel project and the managed extinction of Palestinian resistance. They clear the way for Israel to expand its borders with as little difficulty as possible, making the Trump plan a formula for instability, not peace.
[...]
Perhaps most important is what the 20-point plan leaves unsaid. There is almost no recognition of Palestinian political agency, or any mention of Israel's suffocating blockade of Gaza or its illegal and rapidly expanding occupation of the West Bank.
[...]
The Palestinians, who now enjoy unprecedented global support, need the US to uphold the rule of law by compelling Israel to withdraw from Gaza, lift the blockade, reverse its occupation of the West Bank and allow genuine self-determination.

^ I (Starry) agree with Professor Mohamad Elmasry’s analysis.

And, I think Trump will be unforgettably recalled as a weak minded president who has been outwitted by Netanyahu.

[StarryPlough01]

Blue line is where ships are still on course:
https://flotilla-orpin.vercel.app/


Live stream of boats not yet intercepted in international waters (expand your browser):
https://globalsumudflotilla.org/live/

Starry: GSF, our hearts go with you.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 35931.html



3 hours ago

Protesters rally across the world after Israeli forces intercept Sumud flotilla
The interception of several vessels in the Global Sumud Flotilla has sparked protests across the world on Wednesday evening.
Pictures show demonstrations breaking out in Naples, Rome, Buenos Aires, Barcelona, and Istanbul as protesters took to the streets.

4 hours ago

Global Sumud Flotilla accuse Israel of using 'active aggression' as it confirms all passengers unharmed
In a post on Telegram it wrote: “The Israeli occupation navy forces are using active agression on the Global Sumud Flotilla.
“Florida vessel has been deliberately rammed at sea. Yulara, Meteque and others have been targeted with water cannons.
“These illegal attacks on unarmed humanitarian ships is a war crime.All passengers on board are unharmed.”

[ceannairceach]

Hopefully now all detained and the Irish ones they can fecking keep.

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

It's estimated that around half the flotilla is still en route. Hopefully, even a small fraction of them can make it through just to offer some small piece of good news to the civilians suffering in Gaza.

https://aje.io/e4f7v5?update=4002312

[knownunknown]

It's estimated that around half the flotilla is still en route. Hopefully, even a small fraction of them can make it through just to offer some small piece of good news to the civilians suffering in Gaza.

https://aje.io/e4f7v5?update=4002312

The rest of them rushed ahead to make sure they made it for Yom Kippur. They didn’t want to miss it.

[ceannairceach]

The rest of them rushed ahead to make sure they made it for Yom Kippur. They didn’t want to miss it.

The alleged “suffering” in Gaza can be removed by doing what societies have done forever, bring down Hamas - vote them out, rise up, fight them.

But then they wouldn’t be able to do what they love and kill Jews would they??

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

The rest of them rushed ahead to make sure they made it for Yom Kippur. They didn’t want to miss it.

Lovely sentiments. Funny though, isn't one of the central texts usually read during the celebration of Yom Kippur by many Jewish people all about choosing life over death? Isn't it about obeying God's commandments not breaking them? Should that not mean the Jewish people of Israel and the wider world welcome the flotilla's attempt to try and give life to the innocent Palestinian people besieged in Gaza? Should they not try to live in peace and harmony with others and choose life, not death? Does Moses not warn the Israelites from straying from the path of God, to be lured down the wrong path by a false god? What do you reckon Knownunknown?

It's a passage from the book of Deuteronomy as Moses is approaching his own death and he advises his people how they should continue in the future. It goes as follows:

29:9. You stand this day, all of you, before the LORD your God- your tribal heads, your elders and your officials, all the men of Israel,

29:10. your children, your wives, even the stranger within your camp, from woodchopper to waterdrawer-

29:11. to enter into the covenant of the LORD your God, which the LORD your God is concluding with you this day, with its sanctions;

29:12. to the end that He may establish you this day as His people and be your God, as He promised you and as He swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

29:13. I make this covenant, with its sanctions, not with you alone,

29:14. but both with those who are standing here with us this day before the LORD our God and with those who are not with us here this day.


30:11. Surely, this Instruction which I enjoin upon you this day is not too baffling for you, nor is it beyond reach.

30:12. It is not the heavens, that you should say, "Who among us can go up to the heavens and get it for us and impart it to us, that we may observe it?"

30:13. Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, "Who among us can cross to the other side of the sea and get it for us and impart it to us, that we may observe it?"

30:14. No, the thing is very close to you, in your mouth and in your heart, to observe it.

30:15. See, I set before you this day life and prosperity, death and adversity.

30:16. For I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His laws, and His rules, that you may thrive and increase, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land which you are about to enter and posses.

30:17. But if your heart turns away and you give no heed, and are lured into the worship and service of other gods,

30:18. I declare to you this day that you shall certainly perish; you shall not long endure on the soil which you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

30:19. I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day: I have put before you life and death, blessing and curse. Choose life-if you and your offspring would live-

30:20. by loving the LORD your God, heeding His commands, and holding fast to Him. For thereby you shall have life and shall long endure upon the soil that the LORD your God swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to give to them.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/articl ... -covenant/

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

The alleged “suffering” in Gaza can be removed by doing what societies have done forever, bring down Hamas - Boyce them out, rise up, fight them.

But then they wouldn’t be able to do what they love and kill Jews would they??

The alleged suffering in Gaza. That's a good one now Ceannairceach. You should go along and find out what it's like there and do some journalism seeing as you're the expert.

These two Australian doctors working in Gaza describe what you term as alleged suffering.



Watch it for yourself and come back to me again on that one. Tell me how alleged the suffering of Palestinians is in conditions like these?

[ceannairceach]

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublins-port- ... 7-Oct2025/

Run the scruffy unwashed morons over.