Israel and Palestine

[PureIsle]

Donald Trump says Hamas has 3-4 days to accept his 20-point-plan or else "Israel will do what it has to do."

So capitulate or die is the message.

Also notable that the 21st item has been dropped - a Palestinian state.

Bibi of course declared that this will never happen.

So there is no way out in the absence of a military force to stop the Israeli machine from continuing their genocide, and that force is not forthcoming from all those who pay lip-service to the Palestinian State.

Result:- No change. We watch the daily destruction of life perpetrated by those Israeli butchers, likely to continue until the complete exterminination of the residents of Gaza AND West Bank.

[ceannairceach]

Saw this elsewhere, just too good.

Can anyone answer this? The people using the word genocide perhaps? Schrodinger’s genocide.






Credit @volchitsa

Her posts are awesome on boards - I’d love her to post here.

[knownunknown]

Donald Trump says Hamas has 3-4 days to accept his 20-point-plan or else "Israel will do what it has to do."

So capitulate or die is the message.

Also notable that the 21st item has been dropped - a Palestinian state.

Bibi of course declared that this will never happen.

So there is no way out in the absence of a military force to stop the Israeli machine from continuing their genocide, and that force is not forthcoming from all those who pay lip-service to the Palestinian State.

Result:- No change. We watch the daily destruction of life perpetrated by those Israeli butchers, likely to continue until the complete exterminination of the residents of Gaza AND West Bank.

The last time a peace deal broke down you blamed the Israelis and said it was their fault.

Now a genuine peace plan is in place giving Hamas amnesty, a future for the people of Gaza and again you criticize Israel.

Still no calls for a ceasefire and peace discussions from those who hold sway in this terrible conflict.

They apparently want a few more thousands dead first.

This is how you should criticize Hamas, exactly as you have written above.

[knownunknown]

Who actually wants the two state solution?

1. Anyone with a heart. If you don’t want bloodshed and people to die the only solution is two states for two people.

2. European countries and US. They have been the biggest donors to civilian aid for decades, they worked for a Palestinian state aggressively since ‘48 both.

3. The Israelis: they don’t want 1 state where they assume all the Palestinians under their umbrella because it would radicallly change the voting makeup of their country.

Who doesn’t want a two state solution

1. The activists that have been loud on our streets shouting free Palestine and “from the river to the sea”. They are upset Starmer recognized Palestine as a country because it is conditional on also recognizing Israel as a country.

2. Hamas. They want all the land from the river to the sea pre 1948 before Israel existed. They will not settle for less and this is what led to the blockade of Gaza in 2006. They refused to recognized Israel and refused to denounce violence. Europe, Israel, Egypt and the international community came together to isolate Hamas and Gaza because of this.

3. Arab countries like Iran.

Palestine is a stick to beat Israel with for them. They don’t want a resolution, they don’t want peace. They don’t help the Palestinians with aid and humanitarian routes. They fund Hamas to buy more weapons and build more weapons because it destabilises and weakens Israel. They want this conflict to go on for as long as possible and be as ugly as possible. The lack of humanitarian aid for the Palestinian people from the Arab countries is truly astounding. They don’t want anything to do with them, except when they are fighting Israel.

Who wants this peace deal?

1. Anyone with a heart would want the suffering to stop.
2. Europe
3. US
4. Israel
5. Most of the Middle East
6. Abbas and the PLO government
7. Ordinary Palestinians that want to just get on with their lives.

Who doesn’t want the peace deal?

1. Hamas
2. The crying activists, Hamas mouthpieces.
3. Iran.

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

Trump has been getting on great with the Arab countries during his presidency, signing historic accords.

This isn’t a regular deal between two equal parties. This is a surrender proposal that that gives Hamas everything they ask for, except the destruction of Israel. International security forces will be the security, it will not be Trump alone, it will be a council, only until such a time that elections can happen. It is being proposed by the US, the country that has helped Palestine the most with international aid during its existence.

Trump recently went against Netanyahu and said he won’t allow them to annex any of the West Bank.

A peace deal is on the table ready for Hamas to accept, to relieve the suffering of the Palestinian people, that the new government of the new country of Palestine agree to, Abbas and the PLO and we have the Hamas mouthpieces in here saying the Israelis and the US won’t hold their word.

Hamas have no choice, if they don’t surrender Gaza will be further demolished and they will be removed one way or another.
Now is their time to surrender.

If this is all a ruse to attain something else, they can also attain it by destroying Hamas and just taking it. There is no reason for Hamas not to surrender.

"This isn't a regular deal between two equal parties." Couldn't agree more. Hamas ended up leaving about 1,200 dead Israeli civilians on October 7th 2023. The IDF may have managed to kill ten times than many Palestinians since that date. We'll never know though probably how many Palestinians died given they bulldozed or blasted many structures that the shells, bombs and missiles couldn't do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/id ... 2b2787cf59

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2025 ... il-defence

The rest of your speech is pure Hasbara propaganda to sell the deal for whatever purpose this kite flying operation occurred yesterday. The deal doesn't give any guarantees of anything. The last ceasefire deals collapsed because there were no red lines as to what would constitute a breach for Israel to resume the onslaught and without some kind of international independent guarantor to step in and prevent a completely unnecessary resumption of the genocide or ethnic cleansing, a guarantor that isn't a completely biased party like America or Israel, then the alleged deal may as well be written on toilet paper for all it's worth.

This is an ultimatum to Hamas stating surrender or else. It's not a negotiated peace deal of any kind when you unilaterally keep one party out of the negotiations and then pretend like you've made them the deal of the century. Jaysus wept when Trumpler was utilising these cowboy tactics in property deals, at least he was bending lads over financially. On this deal hangs the lives of 2 million human beings and you have Netyenyahoo and Trump treating them like they're just tokens in the world's sickest game of monopoly.

Of course, Hamas have a choice. It's a choice between do they ignore this deal and guarantee more suffering and hardship immediately to the rest of the Palestinian population in Gaza. Or do they accept a ramshackle offer like this, with damn all guarantees, and hope and pray that Israel actually sticks to it and doesn't just renege when it feels like it? Gunboat diplomacy ain't a patch on this twisted farce playing out before our eyes.

[knownunknown]

Everyone in the world is saying this is a good deal and they should take it, except the Hamas supporters that have been crying for a peace until everytime a deal is actually on the table.

They aren’t getting what they want, the destruction of Israel. Everyone can see that and you guys can cry about genocide all you like. There’s no way in hell anyone would refuse these conditions if a genocide was taking place. These people have no where else to turn, their but Israel strategy just doesn’t work when the whole world is now putting on pressure to surrender. They are getting everything they are crying about, except the destruction of Israel.

Of course these Hamas supporters know better than all the world leaders, of course they do.

They don’t want peace, they don’t care about the people of Palestine. For them this is only about winning, which means the destruction of Israel. Anything less will not do.

Spanish President Pedro Sanchez, who has been sharply critical of Israel, posted on X, “ Spain welcomes the peace proposal for Gaza promoted by the United States. ... The two-state solution, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security, is the only possible one.”

Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni said the “ambitious” proposal could be a “turning point” towards a permanent ceasefire, and urged Hamas to accept its terms. German Chancellor Friedrich Merz called the plan the “best chance” at ending the war and said in a statement that he met with the families of German hostages held by Hamas on Tuesday.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Tuesday said that Trump’s plan “provides a viable pathway to long term and sustainable peace, security and development for the Palestinian and Israeli people, as also for the larger West Asian region.”

The foreign ministers of Qatar, Jordan, the United Arab Emirates, Indonesia, Pakistan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Egypt also approved of the proposal in a joint statement. The statement emphasized the proposal’s terms to “prevent the displacement of the Palestinian people and advance a comprehensive peace, as well as [Trump’s] announcement that he will not allow the annexation of the West Bank.” It also reaffirmed the need for “unrestricted delivery of sufficient humanitarian aid to Gaza” and the full withdrawal of Israel’s military in order to achieve a two-state solution “under which Gaza is fully integrated with the West Bank in a Palestinian state.”

https://time.com/7321858/trump-gaza-pea ... -analysis/#

[knownunknown]

Of course, Hamas have a choice. It's a choice between do they ignore this deal and guarantee more suffering and hardship immediately to the rest of the Palestinian population in Gaza. Or do they accept a ramshackle offer like this, with damn all guarantees, and hope and pray that Israel actually sticks to it and doesn't just renege when it feels like it? Gunboat diplomacy ain't a patch on this twisted farce playing out before our eyes.

Accept peace or go back to the old genocide. It’s not that difficult.

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

Saw this elsewhere, just too good.

Can anyone answer this? The people using the word genocide perhaps? Schrodinger’s genocide.

Whereas what you need to explain is how come the side supposedly committing a genocide has agreed to immediately end operations, offering major concessions, while the side supposedly suffering a genocide still needs to think about it.

mean, the idea that a people being genocided would have the choice to say “We’re not sure we like those conditions, maybe we might prefer for you to continue genociding us a bit longer until we can force you to give us better conditions” is just bonkers.


Credit @volchitsa

Care to give a proper link so we can actually see who you're quoting and in what context? That @volchitsa thing is next to useless unless you tell us what site you pulled it off.

So, what your friend is saying here, whoever they are, is that seemingly a country facing genocide can't be being genocided if they are fighting back in any way shape or form. That's what I take from the gibberish above so correct me if I'm wrong.

If that's the case, that's a completely naive remark that shows absolutely zero knowledge of history. Case in point Rwanda. The Tutsi led militia, the RPF (Rwandan Patriotic Front), had been engaged in the Rwanda Civil War with the Hutus militias that carried out the genocide in Rwanda since 1990. The Rwandan Civil War was ongoing for 4 years before the Hutus began the genocide against the Tutsis. Ergo the claim above is completely misinformed or unreliable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Patriotic_Front

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Civil_War

The Tutsis despite having thr RPF militia fighting on their behalf, had no say in the genocide being perpetrated against them. There were ongoing negotiations between the parties like the RPF who were winning the war at that point and the Rwandan Hutu led government and despite that they couldn't intervene to stop the genocide even with the upper hand militarily. Also, this isn't even a negotiation at all between two parties, it's an ultimatum delivered unilaterally if Hamas are to be believed on how things have transpired.

Furthermore, the key problem to establish a genocide is occurring is the intent of the aggressors upon a certain ethnic, cultural or religious population. It doesn't matter what position 2 sides may be in militarily as in the Rwanda case above or Hamas now. It's already been accepted the terms of genocide have been met by several international political and humanitarian bodies. Therefore, the opinion of this random person you quote is utterly irrelevant as genocide has been established as occurring in Gaza while under IDF control for the past 2 years.

Still don't believe me, then here's the terms of the actual genocide convention:

Five specific categories of acts constitute genocide:
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group


Definitely 4 of the 5 terms have been already met in Gaza, perhaps even the 5th terms has been met as well.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases ... sion-finds

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o.amp

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

Who wants this peace deal?

1. Anyone with a heart would want the suffering to stop.
2. Europe
3. US
4. Israel
5. Most of the Middle East
6. Abbas and the PLO government
7. Ordinary Palestinians that want to just get on with their lives.

Who doesn’t want the peace deal?

1. Hamas
2. The crying activists, Hamas mouthpieces.
3. Iran.

Very astute observations there by yourself. Could you provide links to prove any of these blanket assertions or should we all just do a "trust me bro, I'm a doctor type effort on it?"

[knownunknown]

Care to give a proper link so we can actually see who you're quoting and in what context? That @volchitsa thing is next to useless unless you tell us what site you pulled it off.

So, what your friend is saying here, whoever they are, is that seemingly a country facing genocide can't be being genocided if they are fighting back in any way shape or form. That's what I take from the gibberish above so correct me if I'm wrong.

If that's the case, that's a completely naive remark that shows absolutely zero knowledge of history. Case in point Rwanda. The Tutsi led militia, the RPF (Rwandan Patriotic Front), had been engaged in the Rwanda Civil War with the Hutus militias that carried out the genocide in Rwanda since 1990. The Rwandan Civil War was ongoing for 4 years before the Hutus began the genocide against the Tutsis. Ergo the claim above is completely misinformed or unreliable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Patriotic_Front

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Civil_War

The Tutsis despite having thr RPF militia fighting on their behalf, had no say in the genocide being perpetrated against them. There were ongoing negotiations between the parties like the RPF who were winning the war at that point and the Rwandan Hutu led government and despite that they couldn't intervene to stop the genocide even with the upper hand militarily. Also, this isn't even a negotiation at all between two parties, it's an ultimatum delivered unilaterally if Hamas are to be believed on how things have transpired.

Furthermore, the key problem to establish a genocide is occurring is the intent of the aggressors upon a certain ethnic, cultural or religious population. It doesn't matter what position 2 sides may be in militarily as in the Rwanda case above or Hamas now. It's already been accepted the terms of genocide have been met by several international political and humanitarian bodies. Therefore, the opinion of this random person you quote is utterly irrelevant as genocide has been established as occurring in Gaza while under IDF control for the past 2 years.

Still don't believe me, then here's the terms of the actual genocide convention:

Five specific categories of acts constitute genocide:
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group


Definitely 4 of the 5 terms have been already met in Gaza, perhaps even the 5th terms has been met as well.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases ... sion-finds

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cde3eyzdr63o.amp

Do you think any genocide in history if the victimized side were offered, “if you give up your weapons, you can go free and we’ll all live in peace”that they would turn around and say no? There’s no genocide and never was. There’s is a terrorist entity intent on destroying Israel and there is Israel trying to destroy them. The poor innocent civilians are a casualty of this. It could all end if Hamas surrender. They have no right no sacrifice the innocent civilians of Gaza in such a way.

It doesn’t matter who said what only what was said.

[knownunknown]

Very astute observations there by yourself. Could you provide links to prove any of these blanket assertions or should we all just do a "trust me bro, I'm a doctor type effort on it?"

You are free to provide counter examples and prove me wrong.

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

Everyone in the world is saying this is a good deal and they should take it, except the Hamas supporters that have been crying for a peace until everytime a deal is actually on the table.

They aren’t getting what they want, the destruction of Israel. Everyone can see that and you guys can cry about genocide all you like. There’s no way in hell anyone would refuse these conditions if a genocide was taking place. These people have no where else to turn, their but Israel strategy just doesn’t work when the whole world is now putting on pressure to surrender. They are getting everything they are crying about, except the destruction of Israel.

Of course these Hamas supporters know better than all the world leaders, of course they do.

They don’t want peace, they don’t care about the people of Palestine. For them this is only about winning, which means the destruction of Israel. Anything less will not do.



https://time.com/7321858/trump-gaza-pea ... -analysis/#

All the world says it's the most tremendous deal in the history of the world, except all the people that don't. How many times a day do you tell us to jump on this bandwagon fallacy and just trust uncle Bibi, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir and their old buddy old pal Trumpler? 3 times a day? 5 times a day?

Beautiful use of the ad hominens then too. I particularly liked the appeal to authority where you said we should all bow down to Trumpler and Netyenyahoo as world leaders who clearly know better than us mere mortals.

Where's it all coming from? This love for logical fallacies. Maybe, it's a case of Schroedinger's Hasbara propagandist. A person can post multiple patently contradictory or misleading statements all at once.

[knownunknown]

All the world says it's the most tremendous deal in the history of the world, except all the people that don't. How many times a day do you tell us to jump on this bandwagon fallacy and just trust uncle Bibi, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir and their old buddy old pal Trumpler? 3 times a day? 5 times a day?

Beautiful use of the ad hominens then too. I particularly liked the appeal to authority where you said we should all bow down to Trumpler and Netyenyahoo as world leaders who clearly know better than us mere mortals.

Where's it all coming from? This love for logical fallacies. Maybe, it's a case of Schroedinger's Hasbara propagandist. A person can post multiple patently contradictory or misleading statements all at once.

You always write so many words while saying so little. Used to know a poster like that somewhere else. Can you try to state your point with a little bit more clarity?

[ceannairceach]

You always write so many words while saying so little. Used to know a poster like that somewhere else. Can you try to state your point with a little bit more clarity?

Mono optic jack vibes …

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

Do you think any genocide in history if the victimized side were offered, “if you give up your weapons, you can go free and we’ll all live in peace”that they would turn around and say no? There’s no genocide and never was. There’s is a terrorist entity intent on destroying Israel and there is Israel trying to destroy them. The poor innocent civilians are a casualty of this. It could all end if Hamas surrender. They have no right no sacrifice the innocent civilians of Gaza in such a way.

It doesn’t matter who said what only what was said.

Amazing. Now you're insinuating that it's Hamas that may have been flying the IDF airplanes, and launching the missiles from Tel Aviv at Gazan hospitals and bread queues over the past 2 years.

Unbelievable, I never knew Sinwar played such 5-D chess where him and Hamas were still controlling the board and causing this genocide even though Sinwar's been dead nearly a year now. How did Sinwar do it? Was he Nostradamus? Care to expand more on how this was all Hamas's fault? I'm not seeing your logic here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Sinwar

Seems an awful lot easier to just say Netyenyahoo and the lads are in control of the genocide rather then this long winded Hamas are sacrificing the Palestinian civilians type effort. That's just my opinion though I guess.

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

You always write so many words while saying so little. Used to know a poster like that somewhere else. Can you try to state your point with a little bit more clarity?

Yes.

[ceannairceach]

Amazing. Now you're insinuating that it's Hamas that may have been flying the IDF airplanes, and launching the missiles from Tel Aviv at Gazan hospitals and bread queues over the past 2 years.

Unbelievable, I never knew Sinwar played such 5-D chess where him and Hamas were still controlling the board and causing this genocide even though Sinwar's been dead nearly a year now. How did Sinwar do it? Was he Nostradamus? Care to expand more on how this was all Hamas's fault? I'm not seeing your logic here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Sinwar

Seems an awful lot easier to just say Netyenyahoo and the lads are in control of the genocide rather then this long winded Hamas are sacrificing the Palestinian civilians type effort. That's just my opinion though I guess.

“Now you’re insinuating..” is the same as “mow you’re saying ..” .. yes ??

[Guburnor]

“Now you’re insinuating..” is the same as “mow you’re saying ..” .. yes ??

No, it's not. It's fine.

[schmittel]

Well this is quite an astonishing development. Just as the flotilla is nearing Gaza, the IDF have discovered it is actually Hamas that's behind it all and the ships are even owned by Hamas. Of course that means all of occupants the boats in the flotilla are legitimate terrorist targets that can be attacked and sunk with impunity if needs be. Including presumably the Irish citizens. Are Paul Murphy, Lyn Boylan and Chris Andrews still on board?

Not sure why George Galloway is pictured, but ho hum.

[knownunknown]

What a woman. They prefer performative arts more than actual relief for the people of Palestine.

With the Middle East peace plan proposed by US President Donald Trump, hope has finally dawned for an agreement to end the war and the suffering of the Palestinian civilian population and stabilize the region. A fragile balance, one that many would be happy to see shattered.

I fear that the Flotilla's attempt to breach the Israeli naval blockade could provide a pretext. For this reason, I also believe the Flotilla should stop now and accept one of the various proposals put forward for the safe delivery of aid.

Any other choice risks becoming a tool to impede peace, fuel conflict, and thus primarily harm the people of Gaza to whom we claim to be seeking relief. It's time for seriousness and responsibility.

[knownunknown]

Hamas likely to reject peace deal. They will happily hide in their tunnels, a right they deny to innocent civilians and use them as human shields in their war against Israel. And you have people here in this thread supporting these fanatics.

A senior Hamas figure has told the BBC that the group is likely to reject Donald Trump's peace plan for Gaza, saying it "serves Israel's interests" and "ignores those of the Palestinian people".

Palestinian journalist Fathi Sabah said: "A Hamas rejection, god forbid, would mean giving Netanyahu a green light to continue the war with American and Western backing, to destroy what remains of Gaza and the central region."
"The people of Gaza cannot bear that. They are devastated, exhausted, desperate and hopeless," he said.
"They want a ceasefire now, not tomorrow, at any cost, even though they know the plan serves Netanyahu's interests, is full of pitfalls, and does not reflect their aspirations," he added.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2j97jldkmo

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

Hamas likely to reject peace deal. They will happily hide in their tunnels, a right they deny to innocent civilians and use them as human shields in their war against Israel. And you have people here in this thread supporting these fanatics.

A senior Hamas figure has told the BBC that the group is likely to reject Donald Trump's peace plan for Gaza, saying it "serves Israel's interests" and "ignores those of the Palestinian people".

Palestinian journalist Fathi Sabah said: "A Hamas rejection, god forbid, would mean giving Netanyahu a green light to continue the war with American and Western backing, to destroy what remains of Gaza and the central region."
"The people of Gaza cannot bear that. They are devastated, exhausted, desperate and hopeless," he said.
"They want a ceasefire now, not tomorrow, at any cost, even though they know the plan serves Netanyahu's interests, is full of pitfalls, and does not reflect their aspirations," he added.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2j97jldkmo

Yeah nice cherry picking there knownunknown. Read the rest of the article ahd it's quite clear what the problems are with this offer. Netyenyahoo even completely sabotaged any good faith by speaking out publicly against one of the twenty points that is part of this Trump offer. From the very same BBC article you just quoted:

Further, since agreeing to the plan on Monday evening, Netanyahu has appeared to push back on several of the terms it outlines.

In a video shared on X, he insists that the Israeli military would be able to remain in parts of Gaza and that Israel said it would "forcibly resist" a Palestinian state.

This goes against the terms of Trump's framework, which stipulates complete withdrawal of Israeli forces and says that once the plan is complete there may be a "credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood".

Mighty stuff there isn't it? The Israeli PM couldn't even wait 24 hours before admitting he'd renege on the content of the deal. What is this playground diplomacy? Where the child bullying says "sorry" in front of the teacher for hitting the student and then 5 minutes later goes back to his pals and starts shouting, "oh no I never meant that apology to them ha ha ha ha." The man's 75 years old going on 5 years old with that sort of effort. What do you reckon knownunknown?

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

Well this is quite an astonishing development. Just as the flotilla is nearing Gaza, the IDF have discovered it is actually Hamas that's behind it all and the ships are even owned by Hamas. Of course that means all of occupants the boats in the flotilla are legitimate terrorist targets that can be attacked and sunk with impunity if needs be. Including presumably the Irish citizens. Are Paul Murphy, Lyn Boylan and Chris Andrews still on board?

Not sure why George Galloway is pictured, but ho hum.

Wouldn't be the first time Mossad and Israel have forged or manipulated documents to support one of there operations now would it? Do Mossad still have any of those fake Irish passports knocking about? Like the time that Mossad team all travelled on forged Irish passports and assassinated Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, an alleged Hamas operative, in Dubai back in 2010.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/ ... it-embassy

I suppose the size of this particular flotilla is actually worrying the Israeli authorities this time so they're just getting the excuses ready now if any collateral damage as they usually term it accrues and they accidentally shoot or kill members of the flotilla.

It's the optics you know. It's not like killing, maiming or wounding 200,000 Palestinian human beings in Gaza where you can just shoot the messenger and kill hundreds of journalists to try and deliberately hide a genocide in the world's largest concentration camp in Gaza. It'll be much harder to hide shooting, maiming or wounding members of the flotilla, but you have to be prepared for these possibilities. Netyenyahoo and the lads have to expect the unexpected ya know. Get your ducks in a row and have plausible deniability or plausible causes ready even if they're all possibly based on forgeries.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025 ... as-funding

[StarryPlough01]

The 20 Point ‘Peace ‘ Plan can bring about a ceasefire, but it appears to be structured around Netanyahu’s wants and needs. US President Trump isn’t an honest broker. Trump admin (and former Biden admin) have supplied the munitions for the ongoing genocide in Gaza.

The Arab contingent was conspicuous by their absence during the speech with Netanyahu and Trump. Qatari and Egyptian mediators ...

https://www.sadanews.ps/en/news/236030.html

Qatar's Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mohammed bin Abdul Rahman Al Thani:

"He added that "Trump's plan achieves a key objective of ending the war, and there are issues within it that need clarification and negotiation," emphasizing that Doha and Cairo "made clear to Hamas during our meeting yesterday our main goal of stopping the war."

"He noted that "what was proposed yesterday are principles in the plan that need discussion on their details and how to operate through them."
[...]

"The Qatari Prime Minister stated that the Palestinian administration in Gaza is mentioned in the plan and will be discussed with Washington, and this does not concern Israel.

"He added: The plan is still in its early stages and needs to be developed, and we are trying to create a path that preserves the rights of the Palestinians.

There will be a release of Palestinian prisoners, Israeli hostages. I recall hearing the speech was really about the hostages.

We weren’t hearing about the sovereign state of Palestinian and its right to self determination. All that was couched in hazy terms. I think it will be when Israel decides the "PA reform program is faithfully carried out" . Likely never.

Hamas will be demilitarised:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/2 ... ar-on-gaza

^^^ According to above sadanews link, the 20 Point Plan “calls for a phased Israeli withdrawal”. I wonder what TIMEFRAME - 5 years??

Netanyahu has reneged on previous Palestinian agreements. And Bibi has clearly demonstrated what he wants with his map in hand - a Greater Israel.

On or about 26 September, there was news that former United Kingdom PM Tony. Blair ((2 May 1997 – 27 June 2007) was set to lead a Gaza International Transitional Authority (Gita) for up to 5 years (that is, the Board for Peace in 20 Point Plan).
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 34227.html

Former PM Blair was conned by US presidents Bill Clinton and George W Bush.

See below UK Chilcot Inquiry’s Report (published 6 July 2016), and UK’s ** declassified ** documents in April 2023:

The UK Chilcot Inquiry’s damning indictment of Tony Blair (published in 2016):
Independent report
The Report of the Iraq Inquiry
The independent Iraq Inquiry examines the UK’s involvement in Iraq from 2001 to 2009.
From: Iraq Inquiry and Cabinet Office
Published 6 July 2016
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... aq-inquiry


The Report of the Iraq Inquiry
Executive Summary
Report of a Committee of Privy Counsellors
Ordered by the House of Commons to be printed on 6 July 2016
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ummary.pdf


Fast Forward to April 2023: UK’S de-classified documents from 1988 show PM Blair lied to Parliament (Below article is by Declassified UK - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declassified_UK)

‘Blair misled parliament over 1998 Iraq bombing, files show’

‘Declassified documents from 1998, when the UK and US bombed Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, show Tony Blair was consistently informed military action was unlawful without UN authorisation. But he told parliament Britain had “the proper legal authority”.

MARK CURTIS 17 April 2023
https://www.declassifieduk.org/blair-mi ... iles-show/

[...]
* Blair was motivated more by maintaining relations with the US than by international law

“Tony Blair and his closest advisers were consistently informed by British legal advisers in 1997 and 1998 that attacking Iraq would not be lawful – but still went ahead in authorising four days of bombing in December 1998.

“The declassified British documents at the National Archives show Blair was already set on taking military action against Saddam Hussein’s regime throughout 1998 in the absence of legal arguments to justify it. 
[...]

I did feel Blair's reputation was damaged.

[AnFearRéabhlóideach]

The 20 Point ‘Peace ‘ Plan can bring about a ceasefire, but it appears to be structured around Netanyahu’s wants and needs. US President Trump isn’t an honest broker. Trump admin (and former Biden admin) have supplied the munitions for the ongoing genocide in Gaza.

The Arab contingent was conspicuous by their absence during the speech with Netanyahu and Trump. Qatari and Egyptian mediators ...

https://www.sadanews.ps/en/news/236030.html

Qatar's Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mohammed bin Abdul Rahman Al Thani:



There will be a release of Palestinian prisoners, Israeli hostages. I recall hearing the speech was really about the hostages.

We weren’t hearing about the sovereign state of Palestinian and its right to self determination. All that was couched in hazy terms. I think it will be when Israel decides the "PA reform program is faithfully carried out" . Likely never.

Hamas will be demilitarised:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/2 ... ar-on-gaza

^^^ According to above sadanews link, the 20 Point Plan “calls for a phased Israeli withdrawal”. I wonder what TIMEFRAME - 5 years??

Netanyahu has reneged on previous Palestinian agreements. And Bibi has clearly demonstrated what he wants with his map in hand - a Greater Israel.

On or about 26 September, there was news that former United Kingdom PM Tony. Blair ((2 May 1997 – 27 June 2007) was set to lead a Gaza International Transitional Authority (Gita) for up to 5 years (that is, the Board for Peace in 20 Point Plan).
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 34227.html

Former PM Blair was conned by US presidents Bill Clinton and George W Bush.

See below UK Chilcot Inquiry’s Report (published 6 July 2016), and UK’s ** declassified ** documents in April 2023:

The UK Chilcot Inquiry’s damning indictment of Tony Blair (published in 2016):
Independent report
The Report of the Iraq Inquiry
The independent Iraq Inquiry examines the UK’s involvement in Iraq from 2001 to 2009.
From: Iraq Inquiry and Cabinet Office
Published 6 July 2016
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... aq-inquiry


The Report of the Iraq Inquiry
Executive Summary
Report of a Committee of Privy Counsellors
Ordered by the House of Commons to be printed on 6 July 2016
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ummary.pdf


Fast Forward to April 2023: UK’S de-classified documents from 1988 show PM Blair lied to Parliament (Below article is by Declassified UK - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declassified_UK)

‘Blair misled parliament over 1998 Iraq bombing, files show’

‘Declassified documents from 1998, when the UK and US bombed Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, show Tony Blair was consistently informed military action was unlawful without UN authorisation. But he told parliament Britain had “the proper legal authority”.

MARK CURTIS 17 April 2023
https://www.declassifieduk.org/blair-mi ... iles-show/



I did feel Blair's reputation was damaged.

Yes it seemed a strange choice to add Blair into the mix as a member of this 'Board of Peace' in the offer that's been made to Hamas. Putting aside the laughable lack of impartiality in allowing Israel's strongest ally the power to head up the board in Trump, the last person you'd want named next on this board is someone like Tony Blair.

Blair is someone that was strongly tainted by blindly following America into a disastrous war in Iraq in 2003 on the back of lies, fabrications and manipulation of data and then left a million dead in Iraq and turned it into a sectarian nightmare. Let's not forget the death of Dr. David Kelly, the weapons expert who prepared the damning dossier on the weapons of mass destruction that was seen as a key piece of evidence in Bush and Blair's governments launching the war. The controversy and debate surrounding his 'apparent' suicide, even many years on from the Hutton inquiry, still rages.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_K ... ns_expert)

In any case, the planning for the aftermath of operation Iraqi Freedom and the post war era was so woefully inadequate that it was bound to fail from the beginning. Blair and Bush and the coalition of the willing turned Iraq into a civil, humanitarian and sectarian disaster and in my view, they caused an exponential growth in Islamic extremism and fundamentalism across Western Asia. Dare I say, their collosal failure and the war crimes committed in Iraq, mimics to some extent Netyenyahoo and the Zionists's collosal failures in Gaza right now.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

And now here we have Blair again being thrown into the mix as a saviour of peace in the Middle East. Jesus wept, they couldn't have set the bar much lower and made Hamas any more mistrustful of this deal if they even tried. Trump just had to pick Tony Blair as first draft on the Board of Peace dream team didn't he? Only a tremendous genius, perhaps even the greatest genius in history, someone like the orange turnip with knowledge of The Art of the Deal, could have made such a crass move.

There are plenty of critics from both friends of Israel and friends of Palestine too about this decision. Nomi Bar-Yacoov an experienced international peace negotiator with leanings to British-Israeli organisations and Mustafa Barghouti from the Palestinian National Initiative have both deeply criticised the pick of Blair.