Problems with the Gulf Stream, Global Warming etc...

[Del.Monte]

Listened to environmental activist John Gibbons on Drivetime this afternoon, and his explanation and synopsis of the problems ahead due to the slowing of the Gulf Stream, rising sea levels etc. was truly frightening. I am not worried for myself as even in the worst case scenario I will probably be pushing up daisies before things go critical, but I do worry for my children and future generations. John Gibbons is not some fringe eco-warrior, or doom merchant, but rather somebody who is doing his best to alert people and our useless politicians to the crisis we are facing. His website https://www.climatechange.ie/ gives a lot more information about the woeful situation we are in and what can be done.

The horrible pandemic, if nothing else, is giving us time to consider our options and we really need to reassess where we are going. The days of jetting off to Spain three times a year, or shopping in New York, are surely gone forever not withstanding the efforts of Michael O'Leary to encourage everyone back to their old ways. I would go as far as to say that the days of mass outward and inward tourism may be drawing to a close and it's time to plan for that rather than pushing for growth. Sadly, Ireland's answer has always been to go for growth whether its the national herd, data centres, road building or housing on green field sites.....

Every time I hear the nonsense being talked about moving Dublin Port to Balbriggan so that the present port can be developed for housing I really do despair. This map from a recent edition of the Sunday Times says it all but the same newspaper was probably also full of Ads for apartments or offices in the Docklands.



Thoughts?

[CelticRambler]

Ah, it's not just in Ireland. People can be very resistant to the idea that the place where they want to buy/build could ever be affected. When I lived in England, a development was built in our village, about 500m from my house, and the properties there sold for stupid money. The development was named Water Meadows. Yep. The flood risk was right there in the name, and still people mortgaged themselves to the hilt to live there. It flooded in 2001.

Moved to France and a few years ago, Storm Xynthia caused no end of grief for a load of municipalities along the Atlantic coast because, quelle surprise, they'd re-zoned the coastal flood plain as suitable for "urban" - i.e. expensive holiday home - development. Xynthia said otherwise, and the municipalities had to buy back the land they'd sold and compensate the people who'd built on it.

It's the same old story over and over again - for a supposedly intelligent species, we seem incapable of understanding that our actions have consequences, and have bought in to the idea that our excessively large brains can defeat any impediment that Nature puts in our way. There's no shortage of information and examples now demonstrating that that's not great strategy, so I'm no longer very sympathetic towards people who choose to buy in places that are marked for inundation (or drought, or wildfires, or mudslides ... )

If the pandemic has taught us anything (not that I think it has) it's that we should embrace the idea of smaller events, lower density venues, slower tourism, less "integrated" social and business networks. It's often said that global warming will result in a mass migration of poor Africans and Asians into Europe and the US; I wouldn't be too sure - I think we're the ones who'll find that we can't live our old lifestyles anymore and have to up sticks and leave ...

Some of us aren't waiting around!

[JONJO THE MISER]

You will find in years to come middle class climate refugees fleeing to Aus and NZ.
They are already fleeing there but its for more social reasons.

[Del.Monte]

Good to see Newstalk taking the issue seriously this morning - the breakfast show kept on saying that they were having Eamonn Ryan on the programme to discuss the latest UN Climate change report and finally managed to squeeze him on five minutes before the end. Eamonn's meaningless, barely audible, waffle left me none the wiser. Pat Kenny had another short piece of waffle and that's it - the climate problem sorted according to Newstalk. No doubt Lunchtime Live (without) Andrea Gilligan will be tempted to have their say too, if it can be shoe-horned in to their busy programme pushing another text promotion voting for Ireland's greatest musician....

[Memento Mori]

Much of the annoyance at climate waffle is that everyone knows that even if Ireland went entirely carbon-neutral it would have zero effect. People resent being blamed for something that is not their fault. Someone burning turf should not be treated as some sort of social pariah and as the root of all evil when it comes to climate change, considering a handful of countries and organisations are by far the worst offenders.

[Del.Monte]

Much of the annoyance at climate waffle is that everyone knows that even if Ireland went entirely carbon-neutral it would have zero effect. People resent being blamed for something that is not their fault. Someone burning turf should not be treated as some sort of social pariah and as the root of all evil when it comes to climate change, considering a handful of countries and organisations are by far the worst offenders.

Agree to a point, but Ireland has to do its bit and perhaps show the way - like the smoking ban, plastic bag tax etc. and there's no use wheeling out the excuse that we're so small it would make no difference. How about Ireland taking a lead and taxing the bejayus out of products coming from countries like China that are producing so much plastic waste and burning fossil fuels to do it. By that I mean put massive taxes on imports from China and if done by enough countries something would have to change.

As for countries like Brazil, we need to cut off all trade with them until they come to their senses over the rainforests, but instead things are going in the opposite direction: https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/count ... es/brazil/ Drastic measures maybe but the situation is dire and drastic action is required. At a personal level we can all do something, I already buy almost nothing originating in China.

[Memento Mori]

Agree to a point, but Ireland has to do its bit and perhaps show the way - like the smoking ban, plastic bag tax etc. and there's no use wheeling out the excuse that we're so small it would make no difference. How about Ireland taking a lead and taxing the bejayus out of products coming from countries like China that are producing so much plastic waste and burning fossil fuels to do it. By that I mean put massive taxes on imports from China and if done by enough countries something would have to change.

As for countries like Brazil, we need to cut off all trade with them until they come to their senses over the rainforests, but instead things are going in the opposite direction: https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/count ... es/brazil/ Drastic measures maybe but the situation is dire and drastic action is required. At a personal level we can all do something, I already buy almost nothing originating in China.

The likes of the smoking ban, cutting down on plastic bags and such are actions that immediately improve our immediate environment and health. This is why they have been supported, similar to how efforts to "wild" or green areas has been supported too, because it makes things nicer. A carbon tax or a ban on solid fuels etc. does not do this, it just punishes those least responsible for global climate issues, the ordinary citizen. If Ryan said we need to plant tons of trees and keep rivers clean etc, people would support this.

As for going on a solo run and engaging in an economic war with China, this is folly. At a minimum, this would have to be done at an EU level. There is more than a hint of prejudice when it comes to the idea that the developed world, who pulled their populations (mostly) out of dire poverty through the exploitation of natural resources is turning around and saying that countries like China, Brazil, and in Africa, cannot also follow this natural line of economic development but should rather, in practice, remain in poverty. Indeed you propose to effectively destroy the exporting sectors of these economies, such as in Brazil. How will people who depend on trade to feed their families survive?

[Del.Monte]

@ Memento Mori

A lot in your post but to take Brazil as a case in point - a trade ban might bring on the urgently needed regime change. As for some of the poorer Third World countries - they are going to be some of the worst affected by climate change. They have the option not to go down the same road as the industrialised nations.

[Memento Mori]

@ Memento Mori

A lot in your post but to take Brazil as a case in point - a trade ban might bring on the urgently needed regime change. As for some of the poorer Third World countries - they are going to be some of the worst affected by climate change. They have the option not to go down the same road as the industrialised nations.

Who are you/we to dictate who other countries can elect to govern them? Latin America was destroyed for decades by meddling by the USA and other powers. How many died in order for "approved" governments to take and remain in power in Latin America?

[Del.Monte]

Who are you/we to dictate who other countries can elect to govern them? Latin America was destroyed for decades by meddling by the USA and other powers. How many died in order for "approved" governments to take and remain in power in Latin America?

I am nobody special but as entitled as the next person to have an opinion on things - if that's okay with you.

[Memento Mori]

I am nobody special but as entitled as the next person to have an opinion on things - if that's okay with you.

No issue with you having an opinion, but you should substantiate why you think it is legitimate that we/the west should try and encourage "regime change" in other countries (democratic ones at that) by impoverishing them with trade bans. This would cause untold suffering.

[JONJO THE MISER]

Anyone remember the 1980's, sure we were all going to be dead because of the ozone layer.
Don't hear much about that now do we.

[Séimhe]

It's very worrying and the daily extinctions make me incredibly sad.

I'm happy we are in the EU but the deal with South America is breathtakingly dangerous and ignorant in my opinion.

[CelticRambler]

There is more than a hint of prejudice when it comes to the idea that the developed world, who pulled their populations (mostly) out of dire poverty through the exploitation of natural resources is turning around and saying that countries like China, Brazil, and in Africa, cannot also follow this natural line of economic development but should rather, in practice, remain in poverty.

That "prejudice" could equally be termed "hypocrisy" when those in the developed world are still responsible - on a per-capita basis - for far more pollution than the populations of the "emerging economies". We in the developed West frequently pride ourselves on our increasingly green, eco-respectful lifestyles while busily shovelling all our pollutants and other exploitative practices under the carpet of the third-world.

[esdras]

Anyone remember the 1980's, sure we were all going to be dead because of the ozone layer.
Don't hear much about that now do we.

No, because as a result of following the science, we banned CFCs which were causing the 'holes' to appear and as a result of that, the damage was limited.

[Hairy-Joe]

I actually think the Green Party are going damage to the climate change message and attempts to reduce global emissions.

The Greens seem to be focused only on reducing emissions in Ireland and not worried about the rest of the world. For examples, look at the ban on peat extraction here, forcing it to be harvested in Eastern Europe and imported. Overall a net negative impact on the environment due to transportation. It's the same for agriculture. They want to reduce the national herd in half, one of the greenest agricultural systems on the planet (look at full time factory cows in the US and Europe while ours are out wandering fields as much as possible). If we cut our national herd, the products will be imported and there will be growth in herds in other countries (Brazil maybe by chopping more Amazon).

The Greens keep going on about such grand schemes to reduce Ireland's emissions (by exports the emission to a different country) with very little practical ideas that they are harming the message. How come you never hear them going on about plastic bottle deposit scheme (like Germany). What about banning old diesel cars & vans from the city centres (is it because Mr Ryan was seen during the gubberment negotiations driving an old VW Caravalle?). Why isn't it mandatory for every new build (and substantial renovation) to have solar panels on the roof? I looked at the deep retrofit house improvement scheme and doing the maths, the payback was almost 40 years. Why should I spend money on something that won't have a payback for that length of time?

[Del.Monte]

The wretched Greens seem more interested in virtue signalling on a myriad of things with no relevance to any but a tiny minority and nothing
to do with saving the environment. Their obsession with greenways and bicycles beggars belief - is there anything else in their bag of tricks?

[JONJO THE MISER]

Rte all out with there sensational climate change crap.
A excuse to get us all to stop using turf and stop eating meat, pure propaganda and of course a excuse for governments to raise taxes.
Do people actually fall for this sensationalist nonsense, I remember years ago in school they told us that they were cutting trees in South America the size of Ireland every year, by god if that was the case by now there would not be a tree in south America.

[Hairy-Joe]

Their obsession with greenways and bicycles beggars belief - is there anything else in their bag of tricks?

Obviously none of them have tried to get anything into and out of West Cork, Northern Donegal or Connemara.

How the Devil are you to get the milk to the creamery, in a milk churn on the crossbar of a bike?

Edit - I must say that I do enjoy cycling but I know as I live 15km outside town that relying on a bike full-time is completely unpractical.

[kadman]

I have seen many many reports as you all have on climate change, global warning ect.
Resulting in blaming the human life form, us, and making us responsible, which we are. And then slapping a carbon tax on us for our effort.
And we are going to get more blame, and another global warning tax for destroying the planet. Which we have.

But I have never ever seen a report that says thousands of detonations on bikini atoll, or the millions of tons of munitions dumped on this planet from predominantly western powers in their persuit of other peoples assets ever had a negative impact at all on the planets atmosphere.
Makes me sick.

[peasant]

Rte all out with there sensational climate change crap.

It is sensational alright ...sensationally bad

Look at the graph below.
Even if (which is highly unlikely) we get a handle on things and keep the temperature rise at or below 1.5 degrees and reach sustainability, sea water levels will keep rising regardless (the lowest line) ...over 0.5m by the end of the century.

If we carry on regardless, it'll be a metre

[Memento Mori]

It is sensational alright ...sensationally bad

Look at the graph below.
Even if (which is highly unlikely) we get a handle on things and keep the temperature rise at or below 1.5 degrees and reach sustainability, sea water levels will keep rising regardless (the lowest line) ...over 0.5m by the end of the century.

If we carry on regardless, it'll be a metre

Banning people from heating their homes with turf or charging people more for petrol, or other carbon taxes, will not solve this.

[peasant]

Banning people from heating their homes with turf or charging people more for petrol, or other carbon taxes, will not solve this.

That's the problem.
There is no single measure that will solve this, no single country that can save the world...we all need to do something, or rather NOT do a lot of things.

Just because the Chinese are building more coal power plants doesn't mean that me taking the bike instead of the car for a short trip is pointless ...it isn't. Yes, the fuel saved and the amount of CO2 not produced is nearly negligible...but not if everybody does it. And more importantly, it changes my mindset. Start with the easy things, keep the climate in mind, take it step by step, consume less, don't waste stuff, etc...all very easy to do.

[dawg]

EU have long term contracts with Mr Putin to take huge amounts of gas ( new pipeline still being built ? ).

[peasant]

EU have long term contracts with Mr Putin to take huge amounts of gas ( new pipeline still being built ? ).

When it comes to fossil fuels, natural gas is the least worst in regards to CO2 emissions.

Not meaning to promote it, but when you have to run quick reaction power stations to balance the grid (when the wind don't blow or the sun don't shine), gas is about the most efficient/least harmful for that kind of application.