IMMIGRATION OUT OF CONTROL

[marhay70]

There’s a lot that I think we assume we didn’t vote for and I’m afraid I wouldn’t put it past Government leaders (who are all desperate for the cushy EU jobs after they’re voted out) to ahem “accidentally” add a clause or two before they sign it, regardless of what we vote for.

I've been doing a bit of research, and apparently we opted into EU immigration policy at the outbreak of the Ukraine war. Who is this "We", I hear you ask, and the answer is, the Government of the day, which, essentially, due to brainless idiots, is virtually the same as today.
I'm not sure whether this is constitutionally above board, as the Government can't change the vote of the people, given freely in a referendum but it will take those more knowledgeable than I am to decide on that.

[kadman]

[Headshot]

Curious thing is that when I raise some of these issues with our own 20/30 somethings who are scrabbling in the jobs market, living at home or engaged in desperate searches for overpriced rentals, have little hope of owning a house etc etc, they often don't see the connect between an ever expanding population and their lot. I suppose it's just the reality and you can only live in the times you live in. But you'd suspect some day the penny will drop and things may get a lot nastier.

As regards the media, they are far too close to the political establishment to varying degrees. RTE in particular is in the pockets of the government of the day and their jobs can only exist if funding is kept up. I don't think there's any pretence at real objectivity there anymore.

There's a disconnect there for majority of young people, they just dont get it. Eventually it will hit them like a tonne of bricks like it has me.

It was only after the Ukraine war I woke up where I saw the never ending Ukrainians flooding to the country and you delve into it further and you see the very very generous benefits given and in fact were getting more money than my mother on carers allowance which was disgraceful.

This government created a pull factor which we're still suffering from

I dont blame the Ukrainians at all, they were getting paid more on Irish benefits than what they got in Ukraine, it's so fucked up

What did people think would happen when they voted fg,and pro business parties?

Put money before people and society,you'll end up with the worst excesses of problems,while mega corporation and ultra rich profit off it

Unfortunately Ireland has no credible alternative, it's one of our biggest downfalls in this country. You think this immigration plague is bad now, imagine if the left nutters such as SF were in power, we'd be in a far far far worse position. (I voted independents who were against this immigration scam)

Ireland desperately needs a center right party

[Setanta]

There's a disconnect there for majority of young people, they just dont get it. Eventually it will hit them like a tonne of bricks like it has me.

It was only after the Ukraine war I woke up where I saw the never ending Ukrainians flooding to the country and you delve into it further and you see the very very generous benefits given and in fact were getting more money than my mother on carers allowance which was disgraceful.

This government created a pull factor which we're still suffering from

I dont blame the Ukrainians at all, they were getting paid more on Irish benefits than what they got in Ukraine, it's so fucked up



Unfortunately Ireland has no credible alternative, it's one of our biggest downfalls in this country. You think this immigration plague is bad now, imagine if the left nutters such as SF were in power, we'd be in a far far far worse position. (I voted independents who were against this immigration scam)

Ireland desperately needs a center right party

Unfortunately Ireland has no credible alternative, it's one of our biggest downfalls in this country. You think this immigration plague is bad now, imagine if the left nutters such as SF were in power, we'd be in a far far far worse position. (I voted independents who were against this immigration scam)

Ireland desperately needs a center right party

SF will never be allowed into power here,Ireland is too corrupt a country to ever allow anyone outside the establishment into power....the only time someone else won an election,they still weren't allowed into power

I can't imagine anyone or anything will be worse than the left who are already there tbh.....plundering the country while bringing in immigrants and dumping em on the streets to ensure profiteering for generations.....normally it would be astonishing noone in the media ever points this out....but this is Ireland and the establishment has such a grip on power here....all other voices are banned from being aired

[Bubblypop]

I've been doing a bit of research, and apparently we opted into EU immigration policy at the outbreak of the Ukraine war. Who is this "We", I hear you ask, and the answer is, the Government of the day, which, essentially, due to brainless idiots, is virtually the same as today.
I'm not sure whether this is constitutionally above board, as the Government can't change the vote of the people, given freely in a referendum but it will take those more knowledgeable than I am to decide on that.

It's not a secret that the government opted into the new EU migration pact. No one really has to do any research into it, it's widely published.
As for whether it is constitutional

'This decision was made in accordance with Article 29.4.7 of the Irish Constitution, which outlines how Ireland can participate in EU policies '

[Bubblypop]

SF will never be allowed into power here,Ireland is too corrupt a country to ever allow anyone outside the establishment into power....the only time someone else won an election,they still weren't allowed into power

I can't imagine anyone or anything will be worse than the left who are already there tbh.....plundering the country while bringing in immigrants and dumping em on the streets to ensure profiteering for generations.....normally it would be astonishing noone in the media ever points this out....but this is Ireland and the establishment has such a grip on power here....all other voices are banned from being aired

If they don't get into power it's because people don't want to vote for them.
Maybe another 20 years, when they get rid of the supporters of garda murderers etc

[knownunknown]

What changes around immigration if Sinn Fein come to power?

“Immigration is not too high, government just aren’t doing it properly” -( paraphrased), Sinn Fein.



In 2022 I noted this was written on their website, as part of their 2020 manifesto, but it has since been deleted.

Sinn Féin does not want open borders. We believe that all states must manage migration. Every state has to have an immigration system with well-functioning rules and regulation that everyone understands and that serves the interest of the people of the country. This system must have regard to how many people are needed to meet shortfalls in the labour market and how many people can be integrated effectively with adequate support and resourcing. Where we do need migrants, such as to fill vacancies in our health system, our migration system should facilitate this.

The system must also protect people fleeing persecution and war, our international obligations must be fulfilled. We should end the Direct Provision system, treat people with dignity, process applications for asylum in a timely manner and implement the recommendations of the All-Party Oireachtas Committee Report”

Page 70 https://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2020/SF_G ... ifesto.pdf. It seems to be an about turn from their usual stuff mind you, I wonder have they been hearing this knocking on those doors.

https://www.gubu.ie/viewtopic.php?p=34075#p34075

[Setanta]

If they don't get into power it's because people don't want to vote for them.
Maybe another 20 years, when they get rid of the supporters of garda murderers etc

They literally got the most votes in an election and the government wouldn't allow them into power,this says enough to me about free state democracy anyway....... We're not allowed vote for anyone else,it seems


There's been too much corruption and theft over this past 20 years for the establishment to ever allow anyone else near power here


People genuinely underestimate how corrupt Ireland is,and how many people are essentially stealing taxpayers money and making coin off state contracts..... immigration may be costing state massively,but it's penny's on the pound when compared to what the establishment have stolen this past 20 year and Christ knows how many hundreds of billions they'll steal over next 20 year in this a ipas scam they've dreamt up

[NewBroom]

Another side of this is legal immigration into the state to fill various jobs in health and tech sectors. Why we train some very capable nurses and doctors and then lose them is baffling. But as regards the tech & pharma sectors, there seems to be a strong likelihood that the MNCs will continue to manufacture & research here but shift their profits back to the US. In which case we get the worse of two worlds - having to provide accommodation and services for these immigrant workers whilst not getting the big fat taxes back.

Who thought this was a good industrial strategy? We got burnt before with plants closing and shifting production to states with cheaper labour. Did we not learn??

[Bubblypop]

They literally got the most votes in an election and the government wouldn't allow them into power,this says enough to me about free state democracy anyway....... We're not allowed vote for anyone else,it seems


There's been too much corruption and theft over this past 20 years for the establishment to ever allow anyone else near power here


People genuinely underestimate how corrupt Ireland is,and how many people are essentially stealing taxpayers money and making coin off state contracts..... immigration may be costing state massively,but it's penny's on the pound when compared to what the establishment have stolen this past 20 year and Christ knows how many hundreds of billions they'll steal over next 20 year in this a ipas scam they've dreamt up

I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous. They got the most votes but the government wouldn't let them into power?
It's like hearing mice trying to discuss things with posters that actually think like this.
You should try to educate yourself on how our voting system works.

[Bubblypop]

Another side of this is legal immigration into the state to fill various jobs in health and tech sectors. Why we train some very capable nurses and doctors and then lose them is baffling. But as regards the tech & pharma sectors, there seems to be a strong likelihood that the MNCs will continue to manufacture & research here but shift their profits back to the US. In which case we get the worse of two worlds - having to provide accommodation and services for these immigrant workers whilst not getting the big fat taxes back.

Who thought this was a good industrial strategy? We got burnt before with plants closing and shifting production to states with cheaper labour. Did we not learn??

It's really not that baffling. They are not paid enough to stay. They get better money and a better quality of life in other countries.

[NewBroom]

It's really not that baffling. They are not paid enough to stay. They get better money and a better quality of life in other countries.

There are ways around this, it just needs a little willpower to stand up against the middle and professional classes. You an Irish citizen do your nursing, medical, physio, 'xyz' degree here - you stay and work in the system for an agreed number of years.

[Setanta]

I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous. They got the most votes but the government wouldn't let them into power?
It's like hearing mice trying to discuss things with posters that actually think like this.
You should try to educate yourself on how our voting system works.

They got the most votes but the government wouldn't let them into power?

I.mean,this is literally what happened....your allowed for outside the establishment,but they aren't ever allowed into power or any say here ,even when they get the most votes


I dunno how anyone could reasonably be expected to engage with the Irish democratic system after that,no mind the government taking away the triple lock after people voted for it.....we genuinely have an unbelievably corrupt society here,that this not only blindly accepted,but an entire sub-class of people exist to defend it

[Setanta]

There are ways around this, it just needs a little willpower to stand up against the middle and professional classes. You an Irish citizen do your nursing, medical, physio, 'xyz' degree here - you stay and work in the system for an agreed number of years.

They're not slaves,you can't force them too stay x number of years,what you have there is a breeding ground for erosion of working conditions for graduates


Now that the left,have decided to repeat their mistakes they made by decimating trades and lorry driving in particular into nursing is beyond me,what will they do,when Australia realises they can simply hire Indian graduates instead of Irish ones and they'll have reduced that profession to nothing,with not enough people entering it and cause a shortage.....it's not the least bit surprising the left will persue this policy though,they face no questions,critism or rebuke for what they done,and the social disaster their policies create....they'll simply move onto the next sector to destroy

[Bubblypop]

There are ways around this, it just needs a little willpower to stand up against the middle and professional classes. You an Irish citizen do your nursing, medical, physio, 'xyz' degree here - you stay and work in the system for an agreed number of years.

I'm not sure forcing young people to stay in the country is any kind of a solution. Could literally just end up with them leaving earlier, and studying in a country that doesn't hold them hostage afterwards.

[kadman]

Forcing young people to stay in a country, where they clearly are not being listened to, is a non runner. The only thing that would keep them here, is housing, reasonable rents, and in the case of professionals like doctors and nurses, is decent money and reasonable working hours where they can afford to live in a high cost society. They dont have that at the moment, nor will have any time in the near future.

[NewBroom]

Independent Wicklow Councillor Gerry O'Neill is rightly asking a lot of hard questions on his Facebook page about IPAS and refugee accommodation in West Wicklow. Yesterday he reported
"Over the past 14 months I have raised the issue of evictions of Irish people, non national and now Ukrainians at the Avon resort and had a motion passed at the June meeting for the Council to oppose the granting of an IPAS licence to Avon. Despite this democratic decision by the Council the Dept haven't even bothered with a reply. As an Elected Councillor for the area I wrote to the Dept ten days ago and received no reply. I invited the elected TD for the area, Edward Timmins , to a meeting last week to meet a group of very anxious and confused Ukrainians, some of whom work in the area and some have children at school in Blessington...he again said he could get no answers. I have no grievance with refugees but I do have with greedy people whose whole interest is to make money out of this trading .......in fact they can make five times more from this IPAS accommodation. The issuing of IPAS licence's by the Department to certain people in the country requires real answers.......... The first ''new'' group of refugees arrived last night, with or without a licence being granted although we know the Avon have been accommodating direct provision people for well over a year now. It all stinks to high heaven, where democratic institutions like Wicklow County Council and Elected Reps can be completely ignored....this might not happen in North Korea...democracy seems to have broken down in this country....the rule of law is gone."

These are very serious allegations affecting the area and people he represents. One of the most informative replies he got was:

"Follow the money and the owners of the Avon. It’s all about profit and return on investment for the owners. Community concerns are not a consideration. Goldstein properties ICAV bought Avon Ri in 2021. Quanta capital are part of the group that manages Goldstein properties assets and Mel Sutcliffe is the main man. In 2023 Arturo ventures was set up by the group to run and control the Avon. Carol Dwyer is a director in Arturo Ventures who also is involved with over 50 IPAS companies including Kippure turning over 10’s of millions annually. Arturo is owned by Edgewell unlimited who are owned by Bergvon registered in the Isle of Man in 2023 who now changed their name to Besga registered in the Isle of Man . Amazingly there are two more companies in the chain Jetata and Biska involved with Besga registered in the Isle of Man . It’s all about money guys . The Avons owners will bleed their asset dry."

Note the mention of 'Kippure' here. This refers to a large scale illegal development of refugee/ IPAS housing in the Wicklow Mountains. Built openly and right before the eyes of the planning authorities in Wicklow, who issued cessation orders that were ignored. This in a county famous for the difficulty of even local people getting planning permission for their children on their own land. This is a scandal of large proportions that mostly flies below the regular media attention for some reason.

Councillor O'Neill has reported for months on both issues. He has also noted that the largest number of 'emergency accommodation' is sourced in West Wicklow whilst the municipal area of Greystones has a big fat zero. And who lives in Greystones?

[kadman]

The state run media RTE, wont give topics of this nature any airtime, because it flies in the face of the government narrative.The narrative is that the government are acting with the will of the people, and they are governing with decisions that are in the best interests of the people. And the people are slowly learning that nothing could be further from the truth.

[marhay70]

Martin and Harris need to be dragged out and tarred and feathered, as should those so called "Independents", like the Healy Raes who give them succour.
I have little doubt that large-scale Civil unrest is on the cards in the country, because the unrest is widespread in rural areas, which were once the bastions of the three biggest defilers of Irish society, FF, FG and the RC Church. All three have taken a bit of a kicking in recent times and, like all dictators, are attempting to store up as much wealth and property as possible, to sustain themselves.

[kadman]

Problem is they have a few more years to go, which means they can amass yet more wealth each and everyone of them. The Public Accounts Committee needs to be given far more powers to call these shysters to account. But given that wont happen i dont know what is the answer.

[John]

I.mean,this is literally what happened....your allowed for outside the establishment,but they aren't ever allowed into power or any say here ,even when they get the most votes


I dunno how anyone could reasonably be expected to engage with the Irish democratic system after that,no mind the government taking away the triple lock after people voted for it.....we genuinely have an unbelievably corrupt society here,that this not only blindly accepted,but an entire sub-class of people exist to defend it

SF got an even bigger opportunity in 2020 than just being another coalition partner for FF or FG, that is, for the first time in their history they became the main opposition party, & it was the first time in 90? years that a party other than FF or FG were leading the opposition in the Dail, and by jaysus they were the worst opposition in the history of the state, and apparently one of the only opposition parties in the western world to lose an election post covid/Ukraine/inflation. Between 2020/24 their answers were more lockdowns & more refugees. It's no wonder they lost votes in 24 and FF/FG were reelected because they really are the best of a bad lot.

[Setanta]

SF got an even bigger opportunity in 2020 than just being another coalition partner for FF or FG, that is, for the first time in their history they became the main opposition party, & it was the first time in 90? years that a party other than FF or FG were leading the opposition in the Dail, and by jaysus they were the worst opposition in the history of the state, and apparently one of the only opposition parties in the western world to lose an election post covid/Ukraine/inflation. Between 2020/24 their answers were more lockdowns & more refugees. It's no wonder they lost votes in 24 and FF/FG were reelected because they really are the best of a bad lot.

apparently one of the only opposition parties in the western world to lose an election post covid/Ukraine/inflatio

Why would.anyone vote for them,even when they get the most votes,they aren't allowed into government....free state democracy deosnt exist after that,it's been a farce since day one,but that should have confirmed it out of any doubt


We won't ever be allowed anyone else in power here,they've plundered too much to ever let anyone else into power...when push comes to shove,the establishment here is too powerful to be faced down peacefully....they lost an election and still we weren't allowed change,what does this tell you?

[John]

Why would.anyone vote for them,even when they get the most votes,they aren't allowed into government....free state democracy deosnt exist after that,it's been a farce since day one,but that should have confirmed it out of any doubt


We won't ever be allowed anyone else in power here,they've plundered too much to ever let anyone else into power...when push comes to shove,the establishment here is too powerful to be faced down peacefully....they lost an election and still we weren't allowed change,what does this tell you?

You seriously need to brush up on basic Junior cert level CSPE.

[Setanta]

You seriously need to brush up on basic Junior cert level CSPE.

There nothing inaccurate in that,Ireland is likely the most corrupt country in Europe,the notion the establishment will ever allow anyone else rule the country is failure of concept,

should been confirmed beyond any doubt after they lost an election and still held onto power....deosnt make sense to arrive to any other conclusion.....who else in the world gets the most votes,and loses an election?....

we have a beat down, propagandised population with decades into accepting their rule,they won't be ever put out now,after this debacle was allowed to happen unquestioned by the lame stream media,why would you believe they'll ever be change by the ballot box now?

[John]

.who else in the world gets the most votes,and loses an election?....

Off the top of my head without thinking hard, The new popular front in France last year and much closer to home, FF/Eamon de valera in 1948 & 1954, FF/Jack Lynch in 1973, FF/Charles J Haughey in June 1981 & November 1982.