Israel and Palestine

[PureIsle]

You mention comparison with the Irish troubles and our experience as occupied people and I thought about that recently. If the IRA or some splinter group associated with them had gone over to the UK to a music festival or into some largely unionist town or village and done to the "occupiers" what Hamas did to Israeli villagers and hippies on the 7th October, I would never ever ever wish to have a united Ireland with such hideous monsters living as my neighbours. And I would understand why the British army would go apeshit on the north in order to eliminate such monsters.

I know that makes me bad in a way. Because I do feel very sorry for the innocent Palestinian people being killed now, it's terrible. Their plight moves me, and I wish there was an immediate ceasefire. But I also think what Hamas did crossed a Rubicon.

I was not comparing to 'the troubles' but the 800 years of occupation and all the attempts to shake off that yoke during those years, and wanted to draw attention to the acts that were perpetrated by the occupier in that time plus the reaction of the populace, and compared it to the decades of occupation/settlement of Palestine.
But now that you mention 'the troubles', as you well know there were bombs placed that were guaranteed to harm innocent civilians when they exploded. We all hated the resulting damage to the innocent but were not one bit surprised that they occurred.
Neither, as you say, were we surprised at the British reaction. That did not make the results of that reaction acceptable.

By the way the media in the UK and Ireland are now reporting that the dreadful bombing of the hospital in Gaza where hundreds died was caused by a misfired Hamas missile. Remember how much loathing it stirred up towards Jews - in response to it businesses and homes in Europe were attacked, a synagogue was burned down, a prominent Jewish woman who worked to foster interfaith alliances was stabbed outside her home in Detroit, people chanted gas the Jews, from the river to the sea, people have been flying black fundamentalist flags on our streets, smashing up mementos to the dead in public - and it was not Israel who bombed the hospital, it was Hamas.

We must remember the first thing to suffer in war is the truth. Both sides lie. This video investigates the hospital (one of many hospitals damaged) and whether Israel or Hamas is responsible. It also looks at the magical recording of two alleged Hamas fighters discussing it, which was released by Israel as proof Hamas did it.
Personally I am prepared to believe Hamas did it, but only IF some untainted evidence proves it, as I have questions that have not yet been answered.

BTW, the stabbing of that lady in the USA which you previously posted about .... last I read there was no statement regarding who or why. Is there an update?

[PureIsle]

Two more hostages released

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1023/1412384-middle-east

[schmittel]

It's dreadful the suffering in Gaza. But I'm afraid my feelings about the conflict have been radically altered, to my own surprise, by what happened on October 7th. The people of Gaza need to depose Hamas.
Islamophobia is a word that has been hurled at us endlessly for a long time as if it's the most disgusting thing you could feel - but to be frank in the past few weeks I feel there's nothing wrong with knowing that I would not like to live in a place where women are badly treated, girls don't get educated, ones enemies can be raped and people roar out "God is great" all the time to everything - and I am by nature a spiritually-inclined person who wavers between reluctant agnosticism and doubtful theism so it's not the religious inclination that troubles me. It's their form.

No doubt there's plenty of just cause for Islamophobia, not least the kind of atrocities Hamas are guilty of, much of which is probably motivated by religion/anti-Semitism.

And I'd agree it's their form which is troubling, and we can judge them on their form. But not all Palestinians have that form.

I found this interview with the Palestinian Ambassador very interesting:



Obviously it's the Palestinian view, but something that struck me was how he bristled and dismissed as absurd all the focus on the Jews vs Muslims angle, claiming that this is not the cause of Palestinian and Israeli disputes. He pointed out the Palestinians were angry at an occupying force, and the religion of that occupying force is irrelevant - they'd be just as angry if the occupying force was Christian.

It's a fair point, and on hearing his conviction on the point, I recalled what I'd read about the origins of Hamas.

Back in the 1970s the PLO and Yasser Arafat, were secular, they were motivated purely by resistance to an illegal occupying force. There was no religious angle to their activities.

So how did the religious crazies take over?

According to some they took over with Israel's help:

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Cohen is not the only one, as journalists Mehdi Hasan and Dina Sayedahmed record in The Intercept.
The Israeli logic of the time, in the 1970s, was to divide the Palestinian polity. This weakened a relatively secular Yaseer Arafat, fighting for the Palestinian cause, in favour of Hamas, the outfit behind the terrorist attacks in the country on October 7.

If true, it obviously does not excuse what Hamas have done, I'm not suggesting Israel had it coming.

But there is no doubt that there are some advantages for Israel in framing the conflict as an anti-semitic one rather than a territorial one. Focussing solely on the PLO's secular "end your illegal occupation" arguments would have been far harder to counter for the last 40 years, than the self defence against religious fanatics angle.

It's ok to judge Hamas and Israel on their form.

[schmittel]

We are not dealing with the PLO. We are way past that sort of thing that could be romanticised.

Indeed. Here's a 1993 picture of Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, both Nobel Peace Prize winners.

Flickr_-_Government_Press_Office_(GPO)_-_PM_YITZHAK_RABIN_MEETING_WITH_PLO_CHAIRMAN_YASSER_ARAFAT..jpg (103.38 KiB) Viewed 45984 times

They had signed the Oslo accords, committed to peace, thanks largely to Rabin's change in policy and agreement to stop the settlements and cede back territory take in the 1967 War.

At that point the future looked bright, so it's worth considering how we moved way past that sort of thing, to the point where we are at today.

A little over a year later Rabin was dead, assassinated by an Israeli extremist.

"The assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was the culmination of an anti-violence rally in support of the Oslo peace process. Rabin was disparaged personally by right-wing conservatives and Likud leaders who perceived the peace process as an attempt to forfeit the occupied territories and a capitulation to Israel's enemies.

National religious conservatives and Likud party leaders believed that withdrawing from any "Jewish" land was heresy. The Likud leader and future prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, accused Rabin's government of being "removed from Jewish tradition and Jewish values". Right-wing rabbis associated with the settlers' movement prohibited territorial concessions to the Palestinians and forbade soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces from evacuating Jewish settlers under the accords. Some rabbis proclaimed din rodef, based on a traditional Jewish law of self-defense, against Rabin personally, arguing that the Oslo Accords would endanger Jewish lives.

Rallies organized by Likud and other right-wing groups featured depictions of Rabin in a Nazi SS uniform, or in the crosshairs of a gun. Protesters compared the Labor party to the Nazis and Rabin to Adolf Hitler and chanted, "Rabin is a murderer" and "Rabin is a traitor". In July 1995, Netanyahu led a mock funeral procession featuring a coffin and hangman's noose at an anti-Rabin rally where protesters chanted, "Death to Rabin". The chief of internal security, Carmi Gillon, then alerted Netanyahu of a plot on Rabin's life and asked him to moderate the protests' rhetoric, which Netanyahu declined to do. Netanyahu denied any intention to incite violence.

Rabin was assassinated in November 1995.

A little over six months later Netanyahu was Prime Minister and all talk of peace and reconciliation was over.

His party and government have maintained a policy of increasing the settlements ever since. Simultaneously Hamas' power and influence have increased.

The two are unlikely to be coincidental.

[isha]

That's interesting, Schmittel. Thanks.

[jmayo]

You mention comparison with the Irish troubles and our experience as occupied people and I thought about that recently. If the IRA or some splinter group associated with them had gone over to the UK to a music festival or into some largely unionist town or village and done to the "occupiers" what Hamas did to Israeli villagers and hippies on the 7th October, I would never ever ever wish to have a united Ireland with such hideous monsters living as my neighbours. And I would understand why the British army would go apeshit on the north in order to eliminate such monsters.

I know that makes me bad in a way. Because I do feel very sorry for the innocent Palestinian people being killed now, it's terrible. Their plight moves me, and I wish there was an immediate ceasefire. But I also think what Hamas did crossed a Rubicon.

Actually funny you should mention IRA in this discussion as that was dragged up by the muslim so called academic Mohammed Hijab in a debate with Piers Morgan.

He equated what hamas did to what IRA was doing and tried to get Morgan to then argue would it be ok to bomb the cr** out of Belfast in response.
At least Morgan said IRA for all the bad they did never carried out the same sort of atrocities.
Hijab is just a contrarian who just argued on semantics the whole time as really he has no argument for what hamas did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jBgGY2Ww9Q

[jmayo]

Wasn't hamas,they haven't capability nor size of rockets to cause that destruction or death total.....over 5,000 rockets fired to overwhelm the iron Dome at start of its incursion,not a single death.....a total of 63 deaths over a quarter of a century of on/off rocket attacks into Israel by all sides



It's simply not credible to believe that they leveled that hospital....I smell BS from those propagating that line

The hospital wasn't leveled you disingenuous ...
The carpark and grounds were hit, yet there were no bomb craters anywhere.

There is even video footage from different angles showing the falling rocket.

Of course you will put the word of hamas above that of Israel and other countries.

[Setanta]

The hospital wasn't leveled you disingenuous ...
The carpark and grounds were hit, yet there were no bomb craters anywhere.

There is even video footage from different angles showing the falling rocket.

Of course you will put the word of hamas above that of Israel and other countries.

Isn't that a different hospital they are showing the damaged car park off?


I simply don't believe that hamas have the capacity to level that hospital,the amount of people who are swallowing unplausible lies by same people who told you that Iraq was wedged with WMD is some amazing🫠


The left,whom rightly laugh at Russia for telling outright lies,but accept utterly unplausible lies unquestioned then are a special breed

[jmayo]

Isn't that a different hospital they are showing the damaged car park off?


I simply don't believe that hamas have the capacity to level that hospital,the amount of people who are swallowing unplausible lies by same people who told you that Iraq was wedged with WMD is some amazing🫠


The left,whom rightly laugh at Russia for telling outright lies,but accept utterly unplausible lies unquestioned then are a special breed

You know when you claim you smell bullshyte, you really probably do.
It is coming out of your own mouth.

As another now departed poster said to your previously, try and find anywhere where someone could describe me as left wing.

The more I see of your posts the more I reckon you haven't a bollocks or on the greatest wind up.
You definitely don't know your right from your left.

[Guburnor]

You know when you claim you smell bullshyte, you really probably do.
It is coming out of your own mouth.

As another now departed poster said to your previously, try and find anywhere where someone could describe me as left wing.

The more I see of your posts the more I reckon you haven't a bollocks or on the greatest wind up.
You definitely don't know your right from your left.

MOD NOTE:If you reckon a poster either hasn't a bollocks or is winding you up, put them on ignore. Please don't engage in personal attacks.

[Beatty]

There is a comment in there 'its the mid century germans but now they are among us'
true, and its not just jews they want to kill

[Setanta]

40% of houses in Gaza been damaged/destroyed.....out of the ashes of Bombay street come the provisional IRA,and decades of troubles here


Israel has set in train a decade or more of intensive fighting,and it's becoming harder and harder for western liberials to justify massacring Palestinians in name of defence....Israel are looking like the butcher's they always accused others of being


If,and it looks likely it will be, hamas are the only ones to provide resistance to israel onslaught....Israel has wiped the board clean for them reputation wise

[JayZeus]

40% of houses in Gaza been damaged/destroyed.....out of the ashes of Bombay street come the provisional IRA,and decades of troubles here


Israel has set in train a decade or more of intensive fighting,and it's becoming harder and harder for western liberials to justify massacring Palestinians in name of defence....Israel are looking like the butcher's they always accused others of being


If,and it looks likely it will be, hamas are the only ones to provide resistance to israel onslaught....Israel has wiped the board clean for them reputation wise

Ah, the IRA, “western liberals” and the utterly ridiculous suggestion that Israel are somehow ‘cleaning’ the reputation of an Islamic terrorist organisation.

It’s nice to see you’re the same as you’ve always been. I needed a good laugh today.

[Setanta]

Ah, the IRA, “western liberals” and the utterly ridiculous suggestion that Israel are somehow ‘cleaning’ the reputation of an Islamic terrorist organisation.

It’s nice to see you’re the same as you’ve always been. I needed a good laugh today.

Looks to me anyway,there's noone else there to defend citizens of gaza??.


While hamas clearly done wrong,if noone else is gonna step up and defend citizens of gaza againest this onslaught....kinda hard to blame people there for supporting hamas imo....obvous to me anyway,Israel can stop anytime,if hamas stop,Gaza and it's citizens won't exist any longer

[JayZeus]

Looks to me anyway,there's noone else there to defend citizens of gaza??.


While hamas clearly done wrong,if noone else is gonna step up and defend citizens of gaza againest this onslaught....kinda hard to blame people there for supporting hamas imo....obvous to me anyway,Israel can stop anytime,if hamas stop,Gaza and it's citizens won't exist any longer

You’ve taken what you’ve read or heard, and reversed the logic of a sound argument. Your argument is fatally flawed..

Israel don’t have a manifesto calling for the eradication of Gaza or its people. Hamas do for Jews.

[Setanta]

You’ve taken what you’ve read or heard, and reversed the logic of a sound argument. Your argument is fatally flawed..

Israel don’t have a manifesto calling for the eradication of Gaza or its people. Hamas do for Jews.

Where do hamas call for eradication of Jews?


It looks blindingly obvious to me anyway,israel would kill them all if they could....bombing school full of kids, hospital,aid workers and labeling it self defence is hilarious that people are forced to buy this and label anyone who question it as having "reversed logic"

[Cyclepath]

It's an impossible situation with no right answer or solution. The 'morality' of the situation is irrelevant based on the actions of both parties over many years. there are no heroes and victims here. The 'solution' is not possible while Hamas exist and attempt to carry out their clearly stated aims.

Innocent Palestinians and Israelis have died in great numbers over the years and will continue to do so. Comparing tallies on either side's deaths is irrelevant as it only demonstrates battle competence.

There are several uncomfortable truths that folks need to absorb:

1. Israel could wipe out all Palestinians because they have the power to do so. They choose not to.
2. Hamas and a significant majority of Palestinians and other islamists would be perfectly happy to eradicate Jews not only from Israel but from the rest of the world. They want to but fortunately don't have the power to.
3. There is little unity or support for 'Palestine' in the Arab world. The rest of the Pan-Arabist (as opposed to Pan-Islamist) world will happily stand by and let Palestinians be eradicated because they don't like them and consider them dangerous trouble-makers.
4. Palestinians were responsible for terrorism in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Eqypt over the years. Arabist monarchies see them as an existential threat. This is why Egypt was so slow to facilitate aid on the southern Gaza border, and only with US sponsorship.
5. Hamas initiated their terrorist attack in Israel on the eve of a historic accord-signing between Israel and Saudi Arabia. It was funded and logistically supported by Iran who also sponsor Hezbollah - this was not a coincidence.

I'm an ardent anti-islamist and actively against the march of Islam into the west, so if forced to take sides I'll reluctantly go with Israel (Democracy, Pro-science, etc). I won't be lectured on morality as that ship has long sailed.

[Cyclepath]

Where do hamas call for eradication of Jews?


It looks blindingly obvious to me anyway,israel would kill them all if they could....bombing school full of kids, hospital,aid workers and labeling it self defence is hilarious that people are forced to buy this and label anyone who question it as having "reversed logic"

Google is your Friend Setanta. This is just one of many sources for that information. Let me paraphrase their position for you:

"The holocaust didn't happen but it should have and we'll get round to that ASAP and by the way the Jews are responsible for every bad thing happening in the world"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Cha ... 20children.

https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

[the dunne]

Where do hamas call for eradication of Jews?


It looks blindingly obvious to me anyway,israel would kill them all if they could....bombing school full of kids, hospital,aid workers and labeling it self defence is hilarious that people are forced to buy this and label anyone who question it as having "reversed logic"

THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS

=======================================



The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August

18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS,

is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the

territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive

manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the

basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad

(Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS

Covenant:



Goals of the HAMAS:

------------------

'The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian

movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is

Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of

Palestine.' (Article 6)



On the Destruction of Israel:

-----------------------------

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will

obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)



The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area:

----------------------------------------

'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession]

consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one

can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.'

(Article 11)



'Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the

Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem

wherever he may be.' (Article 13)



The Call to Jihad:

------------------

'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the

individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation,

it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)



'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses

everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the

call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will

reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is

achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about.'

(Article 33)



Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:

-------------------------------------------

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and

international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of

the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than

a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of

Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by

Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a

waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)



Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:

----------------------------------------------

'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle

[against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The

Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar

agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle.

...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason,

and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32)



Anti-Semitic Incitement:

------------------------

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)



'The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have

accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money,

they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred

revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the

French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the

revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret

organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions -

which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies

and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ...

and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the

world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge

financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them

having their finger in it.' (Article 22)



'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet

expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have

finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they

will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out

in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32)



'The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the

circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over

the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped

for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews.'

(Article 32)

[Setanta]

THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS

=======================================



The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August

18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS,

is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the

territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive

manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the

basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad

(Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS

Covenant:



Goals of the HAMAS:

------------------

'The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian

movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is

Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of

Palestine.' (Article 6)



On the Destruction of Israel:

-----------------------------

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will

obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)



The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area:

----------------------------------------

'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession]

consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one

can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.'

(Article 11)



'Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the

Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem

wherever he may be.' (Article 13)



The Call to Jihad:

------------------

'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the

individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation,

it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)



'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses

everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the

call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will

reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is

achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about.'

(Article 33)



Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:

-------------------------------------------

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and

international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of

the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than

a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of

Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by

Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a

waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)



Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:

----------------------------------------------

'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle

[against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The

Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar

agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle.

...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason,

and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32)



Anti-Semitic Incitement:

------------------------

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)



'The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have

accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money,

they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred

revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the

French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the

revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret

organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions -

which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies

and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ...

and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the

world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge

financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them

having their finger in it.' (Article 22)



'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet

expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have

finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they

will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out

in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32)



'The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the

circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over

the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped

for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews.'

(Article 32)

Ah yes,despite what the left will tell you Zionism deosnt equal all jews

Interesting conceptual articles nonetheless

[the dunne]

Ah yes,despite what the left will tell you Zionism deosnt equal all jews

Interesting conceptual articles nonetheless

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

me, come and kill him

[knownunknown]

Interesting.....

[jmayo]

There is a comment in there 'its the mid century germans but now they are among us'
true, and its not just jews they want to kill

But of course to some these are lies.
I guess the old antisemitic view is that Jews are liars and can't be trusted.

That is why I say they should publish the pictures.
Let the world see exactly what the so called freedom fighters from Palestine are like.

And then lets see the usual suspects stand up for them.

Only when the images, the videos, the first person testament of holocaust survivors was shown to the world, particularly in the coverage of the Eichman trial, did some of the non believers believe.

Show the real footage to shut up the ones excusing this.

And for anyone that says they are lying, how come Israelis never made these type of allegations before even when invaded or other incursions.

And as I asked before if this happened to your country, to your country's women and children how would you feel?
Would you give two fooks about protestors in other countries and would you give two fooks about the ones hiding and supporting the barbaric animals that did these things?

[Cyclepath]

Also remember that Hamas have no intention of adhering to any peace accord, ever.

"Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:
-------------------------------------------

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and

international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of

the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than

a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of

Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by

Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a

waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)"

[Cyclepath]

Meanwhile, the Gays are still for Palestine apparently:

https://x.com/DogRightGirl/status/17167 ... 77093?s=20