Chances of a broadly acceptable political party

[marhay70]

What are the chances of Ireland producing a new acceptable political party, slightly to the left of centre? It seems every day and everywhere I go, I meet people who say they are heartily sick of the Civil War parties, but here we are, 100+ years on, still with one or other or both, controlling the country.
There have been attempts. Notably, the PDs, which had all the right qualifications but turned out to be to the right of Genghis Khan and riven with splits and rivalries, and anyway, were just a bunch of people disenchanted with their lot in the main parties and desirous of returning to the fold with a better standing.
I was hopeful at the inception of the PDs of a better option, and for a while, that seemed to be the case, but then came the dreaded woke disease, where every hard case is embraced in place of the Irish case. This places them in the same category as the Greens, who cannot be convinced that the Irish taxpayer is not responsible for the ills of the world and is incapable of fixing them.
This really is the nub of the matter, Ireland is a small rock in the Atlantic to the west of Europe, It is not responsible for, or capable of fixing the ills of the world, thirty years ago we couldn't fund medical cards for the most critically ill people in our society, now we are expected to feed, clothe and house the entire population of the Middle East and Africa, and still can't fund those necessities for our own people. This has got to stop, and it is unlikely to do so with the Bobbsey Twins leading the Government and our Ministers floating off to Europe to discuss billion dollar aid plans for Gaza or Syria or whatever other sob story is hitting the headlines this week. Time to look after the people who are funding your government and who are keeping you in the lifestyle to which you have become accustomed.
So is there a glimmer of hope ? Are there any aspiring politician who share the common Irish cause and haven't been bitten by the woke bug?

Note; the first person to mention Sinn Fein may recieve a visit in the middle of the night.

[knownunknown]

Increasing by the day I suspect but still very low right now.

Farage’s reform party seems to be popular in the UK and has forced Starmer to shift labour’s stance on immigration.

[Setanta]

The country is overrun with lefties,they've destroyed it and let mega corporation's take over

We need a party to look out for the ordinary person and face down the mega corporation's, the left have ended up putting thousands out of work,to rewet bogs,while we import turf from Latvia and woodchip from Brazil,it's long since time we walked away from globalization and looked after our own first

[Bubblypop]

You want a slightly left leaning party, not bitten by the 'woke bug' is that correct?
Can you explain exactly what you mean by woke.
I was a PD supporter at one stage, but some of their politicians were just insufferable

[marhay70]

You want a slightly left leaning party, not bitten by the 'woke bug' is that correct?
Can you explain exactly what you mean by woke.
I was a PD supporter at one stage, but some of their politicians were just insufferable

Woke, to me, is when someone takes a stance that is totally against the norm and tries to make it the norm or embraces a cause which is counter to the common good. This is usually done for self-aggrandisement.
That is as simplified as I can make it, but there are generic interpretations I have seen which would also meet my approval.
I am a supporter of the centre left because my background would not allow me to be on the right, but I am not a "leftie", in the derogatory sense often used. You work, you get paid, you prosper.

[Bubblypop]

Woke, to me, is when someone takes a stance that is totally against the norm and tries to make it the norm or embraces a cause which is counter to the common good. This is usually done for self-aggrandisement.
That is as simplified as I can make it, but there are generic interpretations I have seen which would also meet my approval.
I am a supporter of the centre left because my background would not allow me to be on the right, but I am not a "leftie", in the derogatory sense often used. You work, you get paid, you prosper.

I don't like this use of woke as an insult. It's not an insult to be aware of discrimination and social injustice. Which is what it means. Anyone who is left of centre would also be aware of these issues.
I agree with your last sentence. Working to better oneself should always be the aim.

[marhay70]

I don't like this use of woke as an insult. It's not an insult to be aware of discrimination and social injustice. Which is what it means. Anyone who is left of centre would also be aware of these issues.
I agree with your last sentence. Working to better oneself should always be the aim.

There are many terms in the English language which no longer have the meaning for which they were coined. It's not what woke originally meant, which, I believe, was to be aware of racism in Black American culture; it's what it has become. The whole Labour and Social movement was formed to combat discrimination and injustice.

[knownunknown]

While woke may be used as a pejorative it’s not exactly high up on the list of insults, it’s fairly tame.

Twitter had wardrobes full of “stay woke” t-shirts when Musk took over and many celebrities were seen wearing them down the years.

People that use it on themselves mean to say they are alert to social injustice and those who use it as a pejorative mean to say you’re too aware of social injustice, while having authoritarian undertones. For example greta thurnberg creating a climate action group in New Zealand only to disband it once she realized the group was too white.

The sensitivity to this word on boards throughout the years was off the charts. It was used as a bait to ban people. Every time someone said “ok define woke so” the definition would be deleted and poster banned and then everyone would pretend it had no definition.

I saw this happen dozens of times, it was disgraceful. The woke certainly don’t like to have a mirror put to their faces.

[knownunknown]

What is woke about modern Ireland?

• Attitude towards our culturally distant friends….
• Forcing people to use pronouns and compelling speech in regards gender ideology.
• The asylum racket and attitudes towards it.
• Our recognition of Palestine as a state.
• Our kowtowing to BLM
• Forcing everyone to stay at home during Covid.
• Our indulgence in identity politics.
• Telling men they need a licence to leave their houses after poor Aisling’s murder
• Replacing blasphemy laws with hate speech laws
• Etc..

[Bubblypop]

There are many terms in the English language which no longer have the meaning for which they were coined. It's not what woke originally meant, which, I believe, was to be aware of racism in Black American culture; it's what it has become. The whole Labour and Social movement was formed to combat discrimination and injustice.

I think it does actually have it's original meaning. That's the way I read it. There are many people who have tried to make it an insult, it's not imo.
Anyone slightly left of centre would believe the same things

[marhay70]

I think it does actually have it's original meaning. That's the way I read it. There are many people who have tried to make it an insult, it's not imo.
Anyone slightly left of centre would believe the same things

Well, I suppose that depends on who you think is being discriminated against and for what reason.

[Bubblypop]

Well, I suppose that depends on who you think is being discriminated against and for what reason.

Not really, considering discrimination is unjust prejudicial treatment of other people. It shouldn't matter who the victim of wrongdoing is.

[NewBroom]

I would have thought that Labour and their alter egos, the SDs are what the OP wants, slightly to left of centre. Probably why I voted for Labour for many years and was happy to defend them against the SF onslaught.

But then they lost their way and forgot who they are supposed to represent and what the important matters of the day are to the average Irish citizen.

And once you lose voters, it's hard to get them back.

If a new party were to succeed, I think it will need to be somewhat inward looking and right of centre, certainly Ireland first. And we're not at all unique in that.

[kadman]

It makes very little odds whether we continue with the current selection selection of political dimwits or we form and choose a new political group. The same old shit will carry on, and exactly the same outcomes will occur mainly for two reasons. We cant fix any problem by using the same people and mindset that created it in the first place, and we keep doing exactly that.

But more than that there needs to be a single fundamental change in governance to achieve progress in fixing the system. Its the one thing that is stopping any form of positive solution to the outcome. Because its not there it allows for repetition of disastrous mistakes by politicians, corruption and indifference to peoples daily problems.

The ordinary Joe or Joanne goes off to do their 40+ hours per week and operates with this one thing in mind, because they have to. If they dont they run the risk of losing everything, for them selves and their family.

And that thing is accountability for their actions. They are accountable , so they have to perform to a standard that maintains their position in their job and society as a whole. Current system allows for politicians to do whatever the feck they want, with no accountability or threat of losing their job, income, security, pension ect. Why
And what have they been doing. Well its whatever they feck they like, because they are not accountable.

I'll vote for any new party that puts irish citizens first on any list being made, above and beyond all other peoples. That means spending all available monies on Irish people, first. Why because I am irish, and tired of being at the bottom of the list. Let all other nationalities move one step down the list so that we can rise to the top of the list in our own country where we should be.
I care about Irish first, as well as other natinalities, but they will just have to wait there turn.

[Bubblypop]

Any government should be a government for all of society, not just certain members of it.

[kadman]

Irish people fought to make Ireland what it is today, and irish people paid their taxes, prsi, usc, and what ever other payments since the foundation of the state. In my opinion that should put them first in the pecking order for any services that the state has to provide. But at the moment it does not. I dont agree with that, and make no apologies to anyone for that either.

[knownunknown]

Not really, considering discrimination is unjust prejudicial treatment of other people. It shouldn't matter who the victim of wrongdoing is.

That’s the kind of thinking that has led to transgender men being allowed to compete in women’s sports. It’s discrimination, they would argue, not to allow them, but by allowing it you’re actually hurting a much, much larger percentage of the population. The victim-perpetrator narrative is very woke altogether.

These categories are more nuanced than woke society allows for and perpetrators are often also victims themselves.

[Bubblypop]

That’s the kind of thinking that has led to transgender men being allowed to compete in women’s sports. It’s discrimination, they would argue, not to allow them, but by allowing it you’re actually hurting a much, much larger percentage of the population. The victim-perpetrator narrative is very woke altogether.

These categories are more nuanced than woke society allows for and perpetrators are often also victims themselves.

Not at all. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true. Discrimination is very clear. I could claim discrimination because I have brown hair, doesn't make it so.

[Bubblypop]

Irish people fought to make Ireland what it is today, and irish people paid their taxes, prsi, usc, and what ever other payments since the foundation of the state. In my opinion that should put them first in the pecking order for any services that the state has to provide. But at the moment it does not. I dont agree with that, and make no apologies to anyone for that either.

You can be of the opinion that being a certain nationality somehow makes you more deserving then those of a different nationality. Unfortunately discrimination based on nationality is racist.

[kadman]

My nationality contributed to the creation of this country, and deserve to be treated equally with all others requiring support and help from the state which they contributed to. At the moment thats not the case, other nationalities are getting preferential treatment first, even tho they have not contributed at all. If thats the case then the government are racist against me for being irish.
I dont have any problem with other nationalities working and integrating into irish society once we know who they are, and where they came from, and thats not the case either, its the governments. I'll vote for any party thats going to place my needs as an irishman first.

[marhay70]

Not really, considering discrimination is unjust prejudicial treatment of other people. It shouldn't matter who the victim of wrongdoing is.

What is unjust is subjective to those making the objection, others may not consider it so

[ceannairceach]

Jesus the last thing we need is another left leaning party!!!

[knownunknown]

Jesus the last thing we need is another left leaning party!!!

We need a Farage type figure who gains a lot of popularity, although not enough to become government, which force the established parties back from the far left/woke type policies.

[Bubblypop]

What is unjust is subjective to those making the objection, others may not consider it so

Could you give an example of discrimination that you feel is acceptable?

[Bubblypop]

My nationality contributed to the creation of this country, and deserve to be treated equally with all others requiring support and help from the state which they contributed to. At the moment thats not the case, other nationalities are getting preferential treatment first, even tho they have not contributed at all. If thats the case then the government are racist against me for being irish.
I dont have any problem with other nationalities working and integrating into irish society once we know who they are, and where they came from, and thats not the case either, its the governments. I'll vote for any party thats going to place my needs as an irishman first.

All people are equal. And treated equally. Anything else is discrimination and against the law.