Israel and Palestine

[PureIsle]

I am now convinced that only a one-state solution is the answer, from where the Zionists are expelled, and the 'greater Israel' idea is constitutionally denied in a country called Palestine.
Those butchers deserve nothing good in their lives .. or their 'after lives'!

[ceannairceach]

Release the Hostages
Destroy Hamas

[PureIsle]

Former senior Biden officials say no evidence Hamas diverted goods from international NGOs

Former senior Biden administration officials Jack Lew and David Satterfield state that “neither the IDF nor the UN ever shared evidence with us — or asserted to us privately — that Hamas was physically diverting US-funded goods provided by the World Food Programme or international nongovernmental organizations.”

They add that “there was no evidence of substantial Hamas diversion of any major assistance funded by the UN or nongovernmental organizations (NGOs),” in a joint Foreign Affairs op-ed.

Lew previously served as US ambassador to Israel, and Satterfield as US envoy for West Asian humanitarian issues.

The Cradle

More Israeli lies being debunked.
Does Israel ever tell the truth?
.

[PureIsle]

ICC arrest warrant applications ready for Ben Gvir & Smotrich on apartheid charges

Arrest warrant applications against two senior Israeli ministers on apartheid charges are complete and currently with two deputy prosecutors at the International Criminal Court (ICC).

If issued, the warrants for National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir and Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich would mark the first time the crime of apartheid is prosecuted at an international court.

According to multiple ICC insiders, Chief Prosecutor Karim Khan had already prepared the cases against Ben Gvir and Smotrich before going on leave in May.

"Those applications for the arrest warrants are completely done," an ICC source told MEE, adding, "The only thing that didn't happen was submitting them to the court," speaking on condition of anonymity.

(Middle East Eye)

They both should be charged with more serious crimes. Two more despicable characters would be difficult to find.
.

[ceannairceach]

Seriously this thread needs to be closed - it’s not a debate, it’s vile pro Hamas propaganda.

Perhaps a Conspiracy Theory thread??

[marhay70]

Seriously this thread needs to be closed - it’s not a debate, it’s vile pro Hamas propaganda.

Perhaps a Conspiracy Theory thread??

That's because those of us who took the anti Hamas side got tired of the same unsourced propaganda being trotted out again and again by the same one or two individuals.

[ceannairceach]

That's because those of us who took the anti Hamas side got tired of the same unsourced propaganda being trotted out again and again by the same one or two individuals.

You’d think anti gang raping murderous psychopaths would be the default wouldn’t you ??

I guess there are some people who are delighted to have an outlet for their antisemitism.

[PureIsle]

Leaked recordings aired by Israel’s Channel 12 captured former Aman chief Aharon Haliva declaring that “for every person killed on 7 October, 2023, 50 Palestinians should die” and that “it doesn’t matter if they are children."
and "They need a Nakba every once in a while'”

He further stated “the fact there are 50,000 dead in Gaza is necessary and required.”



Yes very nice people those Zionists.
.

[PureIsle]

In case anyone ever had doubts about how the USA conducts itself or supports terrorism & genocide and completely ignores international law this should put those doubts to bed.

US Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee told Israeli Army Radio that “massive” settlement development in the occupied West Bank, including the E1 area east of Jerusalem, “is not a violation of international law” and would not be opposed by Washington.

“Whether or not there should be massive development in E1 is a decision for the government of Israel to make,” he said, adding that the US would not interfere in Israel’s decisions.

His comments directly contradict international consensus. Omar Shakir of Human Rights Watch told Middle East Eye that settlement expansion is a war crime under the Fourth Geneva Convention and the Rome Statute.

In 2020, the EU and 15 European states denounced the E1 plans, while the UN’s Stephane Dujarric warned this week that the project “would put an end to prospects of a two-state solution.”

Extremist Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich meanwhile praised the plan as “Zionism at its best” that would “bury the idea of a Palestinian state.”

(highlights mine)
The Cradle

Those who support genocide are also guilty under international law.

Who will even try to save those remaining Palestinians?
.

[NattyO]

What is the Irish fascination with the Israeli / Palestine conflict? This appears to be the largest thread in this forum, and these threads are always among the largest on any Irish forum. You can hardly walk down any Irish street these days without coming across Palestinian flags, we have people in our national parliament cosplaying being in Hamas, and one of the largest political parties in this country has all their constituency offices covered in Palestinian flags. I travel quite a lot, and have been in over a dozen countries in the past 6 months, and nowhere else has this level of obsession with the conflict, even countries that would have a large Muslim or Jewish population. One thing I've noticed in my locality is that a large number of those who are now flying Palestinian flags, were flying Ukrainian flags 18 months ago, but for some reason, once they embraced Palestine, they seemed to forget Ukraine - none of the flag flyers seem to have both, it appears they got rid of the Ukraine flags once the Palestinian ones went up, which makes me think it's a fashion thing - two years ago, being seen to be a supporter of Ukraine was "cool" whereas now it's a bit "meh" as the young people would say, and all the cool kids are flying Palestinian colours - especially with Kneecap, Hozier, Fontaines DC etc. throwing their weight behind it. It makes me wonder what country will be next - might be a few bob in it if one could bulk buy the flags and other paraphernalia before the rush - anyone have an idea what country is next - Sudan? Haiti? the Sahel Region? (the Sahel flag is actually interesting, and the colours will probably go well with a lot of outfits, so that could be the one to go for, also the military leaders wear little berets which would allow one to advertise one's support, à la the Keffiyeh).

[ceannairceach]

What is the Irish fascination with the Israeli / Palestine conflict? This appears to be the largest thread in this forum, and these threads are always among the largest on any Irish forum. You can hardly walk down any Irish street these days without coming across Palestinian flags, we have people in our national parliament cosplaying being in Hamas, and one of the largest political parties in this country has all their constituency offices covered in Palestinian flags. I travel quite a lot, and have been in over a dozen countries in the past 6 months, and nowhere else has this level of obsession with the conflict, even countries that would have a large Muslim or Jewish population. One thing I've noticed in my locality is that a large number of those who are now flying Palestinian flags, were flying Ukrainian flags 18 months ago, but for some reason, once they embraced Palestine, they seemed to forget Ukraine - none of the flag flyers seem to have both, it appears they got rid of the Ukraine flags once the Palestinian ones went up, which makes me think it's a fashion thing - two years ago, being seen to be a supporter of Ukraine was "cool" whereas now it's a bit "meh" as the young people would say, and all the cool kids are flying Palestinian colours - especially with Kneecap, Hozier, Fontaines DC etc. throwing their weight behind it. It makes me wonder what country will be next - might be a few bob in it if one could bulk buy the flags and other paraphernalia before the rush - anyone have an idea what country is next - Sudan? Haiti? the Sahel Region? (the Sahel flag is actually interesting, and the colours will probably go well with a lot of outfits, so that could be the one to go for, also the military leaders wear little berets which would allow one to advertise one's support, à la the Keffiyeh).

Partly some sort of freedom fighter complex - they align themselves with anyone who “beat the oppressors” though conveniently omitting any kind of realism or context. Countess Markiewicz firing at soldiers is somehow the same as parachuting into a music festival and gang raping young girls.

Partly those who cheered when de Valera offered our condolences to Germany on Hitler’s death - though our condolences were very much with the monster’s victims.

And then the rest are idiots who have zero critical thinking skills and wage any flag they are told to by TikTok.

[PureIsle]

[ceannairceach]

Ffs

[PureIsle]

This makes interesting reading, at least to some.

https://www.972mag.com/israel-gaza-jour ... s-hasbara/

[Guburnor]

This makes interesting reading, at least to some.

https://www.972mag.com/israel-gaza-jour ... s-hasbara/

Hi PureIsle in future can you share what you find interesting about this sort of link, let us know what the article says and what is it that grabbed your attention? At the moment you're dominating the thread essentially with link dumping; a better discussion might ensue if you add a bit of info and comment to the links you post. Thanks

[PureIsle]

Netanyahu praises actions in West Bank, & signals annexation of West Bank

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu praised settler violence against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, saying: “The entire people of Israel trust the heroism of our sons.”

Speaking at a ceremony approving 17 new settlements, he said: “From Judea and Samaria and from all parts of the Land of Israel, we are protecting this land.”

Netanyahu vowed to block Palestinian statehood, boasting: “I said we would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and we are doing that together… I said we would build and keep parts of our land and homeland, and that is what we are doing.”

His remarks come as Israeli army and settlers in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, have killed at least 1,000 Palestinians, injured around 7,000 others, and taken prisioner more than 18,500, according to UN agreed figures.

[PureIsle]

Hi PureIsle in future can you share what you find interesting about this sort of link, let us know what the article says and what is it that grabbed your attention? At the moment you're dominating the thread essentially with link dumping; a better discussion might ensue if you add a bit of info and comment to the links you post. Thanks

As I cannot edit the opriginal I will post here excerpts from that link which indicate why I was interested in its contents

The Israeli military has operated a special unit called the “Legitimization Cell,” tasked with gathering intelligence from Gaza that can bolster Israel’s image in the international media, according to three intelligence sources who spoke to +972 Magazine and Local Call and confirmed the unit’s existence.

As the article goes on to explain in some detail some of the actions of this "cell" such as ...

It has also been assigned to identify Gaza-based journalists it could portray as undercover Hamas operatives, in an effort to blunt growing global outrage over Israel’s killing of reporters — the latest of whom was Al Jazeera journalist Anas Al-Sharif, killed in an Israeli airstrike this past week.

It does help to explain how the Israeli lies are propagated, and the reasoning behind those lies.

[knownunknown]

Why have the Palestinians never put forward a proposal for peace with Israel?

Palestinians are asked and directly answer.

[NattyO]

Why have the Palestinians Muslim neighbours not intervened?
Why are Muslim countries not offering to take refugees?
Why have Hamas not offered to release the hostages in return for food for the starving Palestinians?
Why did Hamas attack on October 7th - what was the reasoning for that attack, and what was the end goal?
Why have Hamas not offered to surrender in return for an internationally overseen peace?
Why are so many Hamas leaders based in Iraq?

I am no supporter of Israel, I think they have little or no intention of ever allowing the Palestinians to gain independence, and their actions during this war have been far beyond what could be justified, but of course Hamas knew this is exactly what would happen - they attacked on October 7th because they saw that Israel's Muslim neighbours were getting too close to them, and had decided to bury the hatchet. The attack was designed to goad Israel into a brutal response, and cause friction, and hopefully all out war, between Israel and it's neighbours.

[knownunknown]

Why have the Palestinians Muslim neighbours not intervened?
Why are Muslim countries not offering to take refugees?
Why have Hamas not offered to release the hostages in return for food for the starving Palestinians?
Why did Hamas attack on October 7th - what was the reasoning for that attack, and what was the end goal?
Why have Hamas not offered to surrender in return for an internationally overseen peace?
Why are so many Hamas leaders based in Iraq?

Exactly this.

• 1. Egypt, their Muslim neighbour with which it shares a border, is part of the “blockade”. They won’t allow Palestinians of Gaza to flee through the Rafa crossing. One might look to black September in Jordan as to why. Prior to Oct 7 some 150,000 Palestinians from the West Bank and 19,000 from Gaza through the Kelem shalom crossing used to enter Israel for work on a daily basis.
• 2. See 1.
• 3. The same reason Hamas don’t allow their civilians to avail of the bomb shelters. They only care to see their civilians die because it bolsters their cause and the donations come flooding in.
• 4. The people who committed this awful atrocity named it the “ al aqsa flood”. We have put the name “ Oct 7th” attacks on it. Al Aqsa refers to a mosque in Jerusalem. The flood was meant to reclaim an Islamic mosque. The attacks were framed by them as a religious attack because they thought the Arab world would join in, which hezbollah, the houthis and Iran all did.
  
  The westerns have gone on to frame this as a struggle for land but the Arabs themselves said it was religious.
• 5. They don’t want peace. They want every Jew, from the river to the sea, turned into “fish food”(to quote the green prince)
• 6. I was under the impression they were based in Qatar, the same place as Al Jazeera.

[knownunknown]

I am no supporter of Israel, I think they have little or no intention of ever allowing the Palestinians to gain independence, and their actions during this war have been far beyond what could be justified, but of course Hamas knew this is exactly what would happen - they attacked on October 7th because they saw that Israel's Muslim neighbours were getting too close to them, and had decided to bury the hatchet. The attack was designed to goad Israel into a brutal response, and cause friction, and hopefully all out war, between Israel and it's neighbours.

I am a supporter of values such as democracy, the right to practise your religion, the right to ownership of property, universal suffrage, universal rights etc… which are shared by us as part of the west and Israel. In a democracy such as Israel’s you have people in disagreement but they don’t kill each other because of it like Hamas did to their plo brothers following the 2006 election in Gaza.

Relations were normalizing between Israel and their neighbours in the Middle East with all sorts of historic deals being signed and announced prior to the Al Aqsa flood.

Any country in the world would have responded the same way. Hamas held hostages, had fanciful demands of Israel being demolished and promised to commit this atrocity over and over again. To think any different is delusional.

[NattyO]

6. I was under the impression they were based in Qatar, the same place as Al Jazeera.

You're correct, of course - bit of brain fog on my part, while mulling over the Iranian support.

[knownunknown]

You're correct, of course - bit of brain fog on my part, while mulling over the Iranian support.

They definitely were based in Qatar since the war but perhaps you’re right and they have now moved to Iraq. I do remember reading about the pressure being applied by the international community on the Hamas leadership while in Doha.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/06/25 ... r-to-iraq/

[PureIsle]

THE HAGUE, Sept 1 (Reuters) - The world's leading genocide scholars' association has passed a resolution saying that the legal criteria have been met to establish Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, its president said on Monday.
Eighty-six percent of those who voted among the 500-member International Association of Genocide Scholars backed the resolution declaring: "Israel’s policies and actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of genocide in Article II of the United Nations Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948)".

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 025-09-01/

And yet there are those who still claim there is no genocide in Palestine; there is no Israeli made starvation in Palestine; there is no collective "punishment" in Palestine; there is no deliberate targetting of aid workers and medical personell and hospitals/clinics.
Israel apparently can do no wrong according to those people.

Israel has continuously broken international law since 1948, almost without a break.
Israel as the occupation force has specific obligations under international law, but has ignored them.

Bad as the Israeli actions are - and they are terrible indeed - what is even worse IMO is the international reaction (more the lack thereof), which I find inexplicable and for which there is no excuse whatsoever.
To stand by and watch what has been happening and to do nothing is complicit, but as all of "the west" is together in their complicity there is none to stop the atrocities.

Worst of all of course is the USA which arms and supports in every way those Israeli murderous actions in the region.
I look forward to the day that those Israelis, and their supporters, are subject to their own version of 'the nakba'. Should it happen in my lifetime it will be a cause for great jubilation ... almost as much as that displayed by Israeli soldiers as they destroy and kill in Gaza.

[knownunknown]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 025-09-01/

And yet there are those who still claim there is no genocide in Palestine; there is no Israeli made starvation in Palestine; there is no collective "punishment" in Palestine; there is no deliberate targetting of aid workers and medical personell and hospitals/clinics.
Israel apparently can do no wrong according to those people.

Israel has continuously broken international law since 1948, almost without a break.
Israel as the occupation force has specific obligations under international law, but has ignored them.

Bad as the Israeli actions are - and they are terrible indeed - what is even worse IMO is the international reaction (more the lack thereof), which I find inexplicable and for which there is no excuse whatsoever.
To stand by and watch what has been happening and to do nothing is complicit, but as all of "the west" is together in their complicity there is none to stop the atrocities.

Worst of all of course is the USA which arms and supports in every way those Israeli murderous actions in the region.
I look forward to the day that those Israelis, and their supporters, are subject to their own version of 'the nakba'. Should it happen in my lifetime it will be a cause for great jubilation ... almost as much as that displayed by Israeli soldiers as they destroy and kill in Gaza.

Even if all that were true, which it isnt’t, why did the Palestinians find no resolution in the Oslo accords of the 90’s? Why did they not accept a state when it was handed to them on a platter?

Hamas has been ruling Gaza since 2006 (with an iron fist) and has seen its worst ever time under their administration.

Israel forced their people out of their homes of Gaza at gunpoint to allow for the Palestinians of Gaza to self rule.