knownunknown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 10, 2025 2:27 pm
How do you spot a Zionist exactly? Is every Jew that doesn’t want the destruction of their state a Zionist? You realize the state of Israel has existed since ‘48 so the use of the word Zionist is redundant. You should just use Jew but then everyone would know what you’re talking about and not just the select few you’re dog whistling to.
WHAT IS ANTI-ZIONISM?
Zionism is derived from the word Zion, referring to the Biblical Land of Israel. In the late 19th century, Zionism emerged as a political movement to reestablish a Jewish state in Israel, the ancestral homeland of the Jewish People. Today, Zionism refers to support for the continued existence of Israel, in the face of regular calls for its destruction or dissolution. Anti-Zionism is opposition to Jews having a Jewish state in their ancestral homeland, and denies the Jewish people’s right to self-determination.
https://www.ajc.org/news/anti-zionism-and-antisemitism
Ah here we go again. This old chestnut that Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semitism. I'm not telling the Jews in Israel to go anywhere, it would achieve zero except more harm and destruction to try and remove the Jewish people who migrated there, rightly or wrongly, at this point. We don't need a reverse Nakba against the Jews in Israel like happened the Palestinians in 1948 onwards, so that this ethno-religious disaster keeps on getting ever more vicious and bloody.
The whole ancestral homeland thing is complete bollix to be perfectly honest. I challenge your biblical fantasises with the historical reality of that region. There were civilisations in the area of Israel and Palestine as far back as 8,000 years ago pre-Bible times. Already they means Jewish people are not indigenous, i.e the first humans in that region.
Now to discredit your Bible bashing Zion narrative. For a start in the bible, Abraham the Iraqi was called by God to go to Canaan. Abraham is the first follower of Judaism. The civilisation that was there when he got there, the Canaanites, were there long before Abraham the Iraqi arrived in what people refer to as Israel or Palestine today. Then the Romans ethnically cleansed the joint after the Jewish revolts, scattering Jewish populations to the 4 corners of their empire. Then the Byzantines, the successors of Rome Christianised the joint and expelled more Jews from whatever was left after Rome destroyed the second Jewish temple.
Then Omar and the Umayyads took over the joint and the Muslims moved in, they were actually nice to the Jews and even allowed some back. Then the Crusades, the Ottomans, the Brits and French, long story short, the Jews had very little interest in Palestine/Israel for nearly 2,000 years. That was until some Hungarian head the ball, Theodore Herzl, popularised Zionism and said let's pile a heap of Jewish people back into the one place where adding more religious complexity and sectarianism could only be a brilliant, bright idea, said no one else, ever.
What I'm really trying to get is that whatever few believers of Judaism did stay in the region in those 2,000 years, I imagine a very high percentage of the people who are believers of Judaism in Israel today, are mixtures of European, North-African and wider Middle Eastern DNA, because huge numbers of them interloped in over the past 100 years into this area from outside it. Israel is a settler colonial effort, always has been, but I think it's too late to turn back that clock now. Personally I blame the Brits for letting hundreds of thousands of Jewish immigrants into the area unrestricted.tje Brits always loved leaving an ethno-religious disaster in their wake as they ran out the back door as the British Empire collapsed. Those are facts now, but shur Zionists rarely listen to common sense or facts. Hence why they just butchered over at least 80,000 Palestinian civilians, probably many more over the past 2 years.
At any rate, there is most definitely a difference between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism. You can have Christian Zionists for example, so for a start not all Zionists are even Jewish. A second thing is not all Jewish people, either in Israel, or around the wider world support the ever expanding Greater Israel Zionist project. In fact, many Jewish people decry Zionism as a dangerous fringe ideology that has little or nothing to do with the Jewish religion. Hence why many Ortodox Jews in Israel refuse military service with the IDF.
Also, the Jewish people's right to self-determination is a medieval concept in many ways. Most countries around the world tend to steer clear of tarring itself as all believers in one religion, it tended to lead to sectarian disaster like the Thirty years war, or the Troubles up the North here or even the sectarian disaster that is Israel and Palestine today.
Even Israel itself has a significant non Jewish minority of what they term Arabs, about 20%, who are largely Muslim I imagine. So basically you're just admitting you want an Apartheid state where only Jews have rights, which is stupid because you're practically begging the oppressed minority to rebel by civil disobedience or perhaps violently at some point. Anyway not all Israelis are Jewish, full stop.
Zionism is not about the continued existence of Israel at all. It's a base purely racist ideology that oppresses huge numbers of non-Jewish people under Israeli control in the same way that the Nuremberg laws did in Germany before Hitler and the Nazis fanatics later moved onto genocide and the Holocaust. Israel also has Nuremberg type laws brutally oppressing non-Jews and those in the Occupied Palestinian territories. Lo' and behold those too led to genocide in Gaza. Anyway, you keep dreaming little dreams of Zion. The rest of the world is trying to prevent the Zionists starting a nuclear war over their little wingnut ideology.
