Should Russian sports people be banned from sport?

[NewBroom]

I honestly can’t understand the hatred that ordinary Russians get just because their president is unpopular.

What an extraordinary statement - 'their president is unpopular'. Not only has this regime started the biggest European war since WW2, it has wreaked massive damage and death on it's own neighbour and it's own Russian citizens. It has resulted in a huge flight of Ukrainians across Europe, many of whom have landed up here and are milking the state/ damaging regional tourism etc. It has resulted in adding several thousand € extra costs onto Irish households with food inflation, energy inflation, rental rises - you can't get a basic room now for less than €800, thank you very much. So naturally Russians are not flavour of the month and they should feel it.

Every single Russian is responsible for this. Every one of them. It is in their hands to bring the regime down, it's their bloody country and their problem. Every single one should be ashamed and doing all in their power to end this situation. No measly self serving excuses.

[NattyO]

Oh I understand sport well, having been an active participant and a follower of many.

And what I also understand is the huge propaganda value for states in the success of their athletes. Bread & circuses etc

There are very good reasons that states worldwide invest heavily in elite performance. Reasons they bend the rules in the pursuit of trophies and medals.

Which is one thing at an ordinary jingoistic national level. But a completely different matter when used by pariah states like Russia & Israel. On every possible occasion they should be banned from international sport, so that the ordinary populace gets another message that they are pariahs. It's a cheap and easy way to sanction.

And the sportspeople themselves, well tough luck, they've often taken state funding and the twenty pieces of silver. Off to the front with them.

I understand you think you do, but I don’t think you really do.

Sport is a contest between individuals or teams. Sportsmanship means keeping the competition on the pitch, track or wherever. You are missing a large part of the understanding of sport if you are linking what happens in competition to politics. Fundamentally misunderstanding it I would suggest.
It is the same mentality that has people calling for working class people to be banned from flying the national flag because of how they perceive a link between those people and their purported enemies.

[knownunknown]

This statue commemorates a football match between the brits and the nazis during wwii on a Christmas Day amid battle in the trenches.

Sport has a way of bringing people together in a way that nothing else can. What else can bring Arabs and Jews together in such a way.

If we were all playing different sports, with different standards and different rules then the world would surely be worse off for it.

[NewBroom]

Sport is a contest between individuals or teams. Sportsmanship means keeping the competition on the pitch, track or wherever. You are missing a large part of the understanding of sport if you are linking what happens in competition to politics. Fundamentally misunderstanding it I would suggest.
It is the same mentality that has people calling for working class people to be banned from flying the national flag because of how they perceive a link between those people and their purported enemies.

Indeed but that is a view through blinkers without taking into account the politics of sport. Success in sport is very connected to the 'bread & circuses' thinking since Roman times. How to keep the populace content and distracted. There are countless examples of states using sport to give their regimes a veneer of respectability. Engaging in propaganda and doping and huge staging costs.

And banning participation in international events can be very effective. In the case of Russia, the regime may be able to spin all sorts of reasons on their media channels as to justification for the special operations. When the public start to realise that their Russian sports heroes are no longer in the news as they once were, it's much harder to conceal that. And where they are allowed compete, the propaganda value is huge.

Of course sport is good and I'm more for participating in sport at local level.

[NewBroom]

This statue commemorates a football match between the brits and the nazis during wwii on a Christmas Day amid battle in the trenches.

Sport has a way of bringing people together in a way that nothing else can. What else can bring Arabs and Jews together in such a way.

If we were all playing different sports, with different standards and different rules then the world would surely be worse off for it.

Who went back to killing each other the week after... and the war dragged on for more years. Even now when the Brits play the Germans or the Argies, it's a proxy war of sorts in their national conscience. As it is for us anytime we take on an English team.

[Jequ0n]

What an extraordinary statement - 'their president is unpopular'. Not only has this regime started the biggest European war since WW2, it has wreaked massive damage and death on it's own neighbour and it's own Russian citizens. It has resulted in a huge flight of Ukrainians across Europe, many of whom have landed up here and are milking the state/ damaging regional tourism etc. It has resulted in adding several thousand € extra costs onto Irish households with food inflation, energy inflation, rental rises - you can't get a basic room now for less than €800, thank you very much. So naturally Russians are not flavour of the month and they should feel it.

Every single Russian is responsible for this. Every one of them. It is in their hands to bring the regime down, it's their bloody country and their problem. Every single one should be ashamed and doing all in their power to end this situation. No measly self serving excuses.

- biggest European war since WW2 - irrelevant to you

- wreaked massive damage and death on it's own
neighbour and it's own Russian citizens - irrelevant to you

- resulted in a huge flight of Ukrainians across Europe - irrelevant again, blame your government for rolling out the red carpet to these favoured refugees

Not the ordinary Russians’ fault, many of which have fled their own country when the war started.

[Dubit10]

Absolutely should not be banned. Where Americans and Brits banned from sporting events when they invaded Iraq and killed hundreds of thousands of innocents? Normal Russians are no more responsible for what's happening in Ukraine than Larry from Kansas or Harry from Bradford were responsible for that.

[Belladonna]

No, that would be utterly absurd.
Although Putin is hardly just "unpopular".

But blaming all Russian citizens (even children) for Putin's decisions is incredible - quite bonkers really. And a dangerous way of thinking.

[Belladonna]

- biggest European war since WW2 - irrelevant to you

- wreaked massive damage and death on it's own
neighbour and it's own Russian citizens - irrelevant to you

- resulted in a huge flight of Ukrainians across Europe - irrelevant again, blame your government for rolling out the red carpet to these favoured refugees

Not the ordinary Russians’ fault, many of which have fled their own country when the war started.

Why should criticism only be of things that are relevant to us?

[NewBroom]

- biggest European war since WW2 - irrelevant to you

- wreaked massive damage and death on it's own
neighbour and it's own Russian citizens - irrelevant to you

- resulted in a huge flight of Ukrainians across Europe - irrelevant again, blame your government for rolling out the red carpet to these favoured refugees

Not the ordinary Russians’ fault, many of which have fled their own country when the war started.

Are you an Irish citizen and living in Ireland?

Of course, this war mongering state of Russia is having a direct relevance to us all here in Ireland. Every man, woman & child. I've listed some of the main impacts above, no need to rehash them.

And yes, ordinary citizens of this war mongering state have responsibility. Just as we citizens of Ireland have responsibility for the actions of our state. I have no time for Russians who fled their state.

But this thread is about sport and politics and there can be no doubt that Russian participation in international sport is a propaganda tool for that nefarious regime. It should be starved of the oxygen of publicity surrounding sporting success. It's a simple effective sanction to add to the economic sanctions.

[NewBroom]

Absolutely should not be banned. Where Americans and Brits banned from sporting events when they invaded Iraq and killed hundreds of thousands of innocents? Normal Russians are no more responsible for what's happening in Ukraine than Larry from Kansas or Harry from Bradford were responsible for that.

You're missing a critical point... this thread is entitled 'Should Russian sports people be banned from sport?'

Not Americans or Brits. Different thread.

[ceannairceach]

Just watching a report on Eurosport about tennis, I also heard of Sergey karjaken in chess. Not sure i agree with it, it goes against western principles. It doesn’t seem right, especially the ones that openly denounce the Russian regime, but we don’t make that distinction.

Anyone agree with all this banning?

100% unequivocally NOT.

[knownunknown]

100% unequivocally NOT.

Ironically ambiguous… They should not be banned from sports or you agree with all the banning?

[ceannairceach]

Ironically ambiguous… They should not be banned from sports or you agree with all the banning?

Sorry I’m not that deep after a long day!!

Absolutely no bans!!

[Jequ0n]

Why should criticism only be of things that are relevant to us?

I don’t see the point otherwise.

[Jequ0n]

Are you an Irish citizen and living in Ireland?

Of course, this war mongering state of Russia is having a direct relevance to us all here in Ireland. Every man, woman & child. I've listed some of the main impacts above, no need to rehash them.

And yes, ordinary citizens of this war mongering state have responsibility. Just as we citizens of Ireland have responsibility for the actions of our state. I have no time for Russians who fled their state.

But this thread is about sport and politics and there can be no doubt that Russian participation in international sport is a propaganda tool for that nefarious regime. It should be starved of the oxygen of publicity surrounding sporting success. It's a simple effective sanction to add to the economic sanctions.

No, as I have pointed out before. And I don’t feel a bit of responsibility for anything that happens in my home country because why would I?

I cannot fathom the vitriol this one nation gets over everyone else, as if life in Russia is a walk in the park. Tell me do you know any Russians?

[Belladonna]

I don’t see the point otherwise.

Maybe we're at cross purposes - I fully agree with you that it's preposterous to blame all Russians for Putin's decisions, but in general, criticising what doesn't affect us directly is something we all do all the time.

[Jequ0n]

Maybe we're at cross purposes - I fully agree with you that it's preposterous to blame all Russians for Putin's decisions, but in general, criticising what doesn't affect us directly is something we all do all the time.

You are free to criticise anything you like, but it doesn’t mean that that I will consider your view reasonable.
You are free to think the same about my opinions.

[Belladonna]

You are free to criticise anything you like, but it doesn’t mean that that I will consider your view reasonable.
You are free to think the same about my opinions.

Oh of course! Would never dispute that.

[Belladonna]

Are you an Irish citizen and living in Ireland?

Of course, this war mongering state of Russia is having a direct relevance to us all here in Ireland. Every man, woman & child. I've listed some of the main impacts above, no need to rehash them.

And yes, ordinary citizens of this war mongering state have responsibility. Just as we citizens of Ireland have responsibility for the actions of our state. I have no time for Russians who fled their state.

But this thread is about sport and politics and there can be no doubt that Russian participation in international sport is a propaganda tool for that nefarious regime. It should be starved of the oxygen of publicity surrounding sporting success. It's a simple effective sanction to add to the economic sanctions.

How do all citizens have responsibility for the decisions and actions of an authoritarian leader? It's illogical. And it deflects responsibility from the party that's actually responsible.

[jmayo]

This statue commemorates a football match between the brits and the nazis during wwii on a Christmas Day amid battle in the trenches.

Sport has a way of bringing people together in a way that nothing else can. What else can bring Arabs and Jews together in such a way.

If we were all playing different sports, with different standards and different rules then the world would surely be worse off for it.

Actually you are incorrect.

That was WW1 and supposedly happened once in 4 years at Christmas 1914.

I do despair at how little history people actually know.

And the only year Brits and Nazis would have been fighting each other in the snow at Christmas would have been 1944.
And the worst of the fighting that year did not involve the Brits but the yanks at the Battle of the Bulge in the Ardennes.

And the SS were in no mood to play football.

PS the German helmet should give it away as well.

[jmayo]

How do all citizens have responsibility for the decisions and actions of an authoritarian leader? It's illogical. And it deflects responsibility from the party that's actually responsible.

Why is there such an abhorrence for responsibility in the modern Western world?
Putin no more than all authoritarian leaders does not operate in a vacuum.

It is like the modern luvvie argument that Germans should not have been bombed as it was just the Nazis.

And a lot of that is thanks to a myth that was allowed to be perpetrated by Germans post war that ordinary Germans had nothing to do with it, it was all those awful Nazis. The truth was almost all of them knew what was going on and almost everyone on the Eastern front had a hand in it.

Oh and unlike what that fooking mass murdering scumbag Albert Speer claimed, there weren't the good ok Nazis and then the bad kind like Hitler and his top mates.

Much like in Germany, a lot of people in Russia support their leader, and turn a blind eye so long as they are doing ok.
Also Russians do seem to have a singularly peculiar love of hardman leaders come what may.