Rusty lug nuts - how to get the last three off?

[CelticRambler]

Simple problem, complicated resolution.

I have these vintage wheels (WW2 US Army) with vintage tyres that need to be replaced. How do I get the last three nuts off?




So far, I've tried soaking them in WD40, heating, soaking in WD40, more heating, soaking in WD40, yet more heating, using an extension bar (1.5m), smacking my spanner with a lump hammer, soaking in WD40, smacking the extension bar with sledge hammer, smacking the nuts themselves "over the top" with the lump hammer and a short piece of steel pipe.

I don't have an impact driver, nor a compressor. I do have a hammer drill with chisel bits. I've recently acquired a new blow-torch, but have limited myself to about five minutes of direct heat for fear of melting the damn things, unless/until I hear otherwise.

In the local auto-shop the other day, I saw cans of cryo spray that claimed to be just the thing ... but the guy at the desk said nahhh, that won't work.

Additional details : these are 1.5" reverse-threaded nuts; the spanner was bought to fit (I cannot find a 1.5" socket, especially because stoopid "AI" search engines keep trying to persuade me that I meant 15mm or stuffing up my results with some other irrelevance )

All five nuts on the right wheel came off with relative ease; the first two on this wheel were bloody awkward, although a little easier once I'd cleaned them up and saw the "L" stamped on them, and realised that they needed to be unscrewed the wrong way ...

[kadman]

Nut splitter.

Yep it sounds painful, but thats the last resort option as you would find it tricky to replace the reverse threaded nuts.

Dont be tempted to whack the ends of the nuts if there is any danger of whacking the stud. Its game over then, and alot of hardwork ahead.

My goto tool in this case would be a 1" wide cold chisel as used for masonary it wont let you down. Nice sharp one. Position the chisel at a 90 degree to the centre of the stud and 5 or 6 smacks to put an indent in the stud, and this is your starting point for the chisel. A slight tilt of the chisel towards your chosen direction, and belt away.

Watch the fingers

[CelticRambler]

Before I go wrecking things, how hot can I heat those nuts, and is it likely to make any difference? My previous attempts were with a glorified weedkilling flame thrower, so may never have been really as hot as needed.

... 5 or 6 smacks to put an indent in the stud ...

D'you mean put an indent in the nut? Would you be trying to actually split the nut, or to get it to turn?

[kadman]

If you are not using the hubs again then its no big deal what damage you do to the studs.

Then again yankee war machinery was made to service in the field, so chances are the studs are a whack out serrated stud, and would be easily replaced with a right hand thread of an imperial size which would be easy enough to get.

Then general patton its onwards to paris, the yanks are coning .

[kadman]

Weed killer wont heat them to cherry red. Oxy acetylene to cherry red will do the job, and then maybe the spanner, but I would use the chisel.

[BrianD3]

They don't look that bad and the fact that some came off easily enough is a good sign - this 1.5 metre extension, you are using it with a spanner? How well is the spanner fitting with the extension, are you getting "leakage". I have a feeling that if you were to acquire a 1.5 inch socket and use it with a breaker bar and swing out of it, that would work?

[CelticRambler]

If you are not using the hubs again then its no big deal what damage you do to the studs.

Yep, want to use the hubs (and axle) again. And the wheels! 'Tis the reason I set about acquiring the relic.

They don't look that bad and the fact that some came off easily enough is a good sign - this 1.5 metre extension, you are using it with a spanner? How well is the spanner fitting with the extension, are you getting "leakage".

Yes - old steel pipe fitted snugly over the end of the spanner. Spanner is a "one-ended" version, sold for use on 1.5" plumbing fittings, with a slight taper on the handle, so it jams into the pipe nicely.

Another detail: when I've applied heat, the previously-applied oil does bubble out from small gaps between the nut and the thread. Don't know if that's of much significance though.

Any opinions on the cryo stuff? Would it be feasible to apply it only to the stud?

And regarding the heat - how long is "not enough yet"? A couple of minutes, five minutes, ten minutes? My experience to date (on smaller, much rustier nut-bolt combos) is that they tend to shear off before loosening, so maybe I'm being just a bit too cautious.

[Apelles]

Heat them and try actually tightening them a little first with a stillson wrench before loosening, that usually works.

[CelticRambler]

Heat them and try actually tightening them a little first with a stillson wrench before loosening, that usually works.

Inadvertently did that before I spotted that they were reverse-threaded.

My trusty stillson wrench took two looks at the job and said ... feck this, I'm off to the fix-it pile. The hastily bought replacement stillson wrench took one look at the job and snapped in two.

[BrianD3]

Yes - old steel pipe fitted snugly over the end of the spanner. Spanner is a "one-ended" version, sold for use on 1.5" plumbing fittings, with a slight taper on the handle, so it jams into the pipe nicely.

I still think you are getting leakage unless you BATE the spanner into the pipe which itself may be bending as it is hollow, resulting in more leakage. I've always found 3 foot long breaker bars with a 3/4 inch drive to be more effective than extending shorter bars with pipes.

Also there's the safety implications of extensions like this, part of the reason for my lack of success with them is probably my own fear that something will fly and take my head off.

I'd say the chap in the shop was right that cryo in a can won't do much. So the options are - tap nut with a chisel and possibly have to replace it. Or spend 100+ quid on a breaker bar + imperial socket (easily available here, not sure about France) which may not work. Or outsource the problem to some grumpy ould French lad who will have all the proper tools, heat etc., I have a feeling that he would have that nut off in a jiffy.

[kadman]

If you are still having trouble, then get a slogging spanner, and bate the bejesus out of it with a big sledge

[tphase]

did you ever get those nuts off?
Assuming it's rust that's bonding them in place, you could try soaking in Coke, lemon juice or anything with citric acid.
The acid reacts with the rust and breaks the bond...I've seen it work but the nut was left sitting in a puddle of Coke for a good while to let it soak in

[kadman]

did you ever get those nuts off?
Assuming it's rust that's bonding them in place, you could try soaking in Coke, lemon juice or anything with citric acid.
The acid reacts with the rust and breaks the bond...I've seen it work but the nut was left sitting in a puddle of Coke for a good while to let it soak in

You are right, coke is the new WD 40

I have used coke for removing glow plugs and seized injectors, soaking them for a few days. When all the others failed. coke did the job

[kadman]

I guarantee that the nuts are still seized as CR is way too busy dancing

[NattyO]

As someone who has spent a considerable amount of time in and under old cars, you have my sympathy. Undoing seized nuts is something I've spent a considerable amount of time doing. Heat (serious heat, from an oxy acetylene torch or induction heater) is the only guaranteed remedy, but is not possible in a lot of cases - where the part is to be used again, where there is flammable or meltable parts nearby, or where access makes it impossible. The next best thing is vibration - either through judicious use of a hammer, or preferably, using an air gun or an impact driver. Finally, if all else fails, splitting the nut if access is possible - either using a nut splitter (which I personally don't trust after once seeing one disintegrate spectacularly) or the method I use, which is to drill a hole in the side of the nut and then use a pointed chisel in a hammer drill on chisel setting.

[kadman]

I couldn't agree more. Small cobalt drill and a bit of care down the side of the nut will work everytime.
Of course thats assuming access allows you to do that. And when you replace the nut, copper slip to keep it rust free for the next time.

[kadman]

What old cars are you working under

[NattyO]

What old cars are you working under

I’ve an unfortunate old British car addiction, and, even more financially ruinous (if a little less prone to rust), a fondness for the products of Stuttgart.

[kadman]

Given enough time, they all rust. So what German marques grab your fancy.

I'm partial to the VW's.

[NattyO]

Given enough time, they all rust. So what German marques grab your fancy.

I'm partial to the VW's.

I’m fond of Mercedes, but mad about Porsche.

[kadman]

I’m fond of Mercedes, but mad about Porsche.

Nice. You like your comforts then. MB's pre 90's then or earlier. Of course we all like Porsche, I am currently driving the VW poor mans porsche

Vw Fastback

[NattyO]

Very nice!

Though it’s more a fondness for going around corners sideways than comfort that’s my thing.

[kadman]

Aaaahh, a seasoned gent, with a fondness for drifting, oversteer and power out of the bends.

Do you do your own resto work and mechanics. I heard recently the local, well not so local VW garage was up to 175 euro an hour for work on modern day cars. I would shudder to think at the cost if you went in with a classic. Of course most wouldn't touch a classic now for repair.

I have the VW version of the 914 2 litre engine that was fitted into the buses to work on later in the year. Should be fun.

[NattyO]

I do pretty much all my own resto and maintenance work. I’m just about to start the second restoration of an MGB I’ve owned for nearly 30 years. After that, there’s a 944 in the queue to be revived. One thing about being into classics, the work never ends.
That 914 flat 6 is a fun one to work on. You can do amazing things with them without having to get into machining or any of that. Huge potential using bolt on parts.

[kadman]

Funny thing but i have recently been asked to do some work on an mg as well. Nice car and very simple stright forward mechanics.
Mechanics is fine, bodywork is a nightmare. I often spent all work cutting out and welding in new metal. And looking back on it, you think you did nothing.