General Premier League Discussion

[Buford T. Justice VI]

It's a matter of contention as to who threw who under the bus. These are professional players on tens of thousands of pounds a week and while you might question (and I do) Amorin's rigid adherence to his system, no system can work if players don't put in the graft and too many didn't last night.
In theory, Utd could have put out 11 academy players last night and it should be enough to handle Grimsby comfortably, but too many players thought it was enough to just show up. There were some woeful performances too, we won't even mention Onana except to say he should never pull on a Utd shirt again, but the likes of Dorgu, Ugarte, Dalot should hang their heads in shame. Amorin, of course takes some criticism for team selection and putting a youngster like Fredericson behind a leaky midfield and in front of a shite keeper, was just criminal.
I don't think Amorin's job is in danger after all the theatrics Ineos went through to get him in mid season and when he didn't want to come, the bigger question is whether he'll choose just to cut his losses and walk away.

On Dorgu, didn't he pick up a knock and was subbed for that?

I wouldn't disagree with you, the players needed to play far better than they did. You could excuse it as a once off cup upset but it's practically every single match now.

There's so much fluked up at United, it's difficult to know where to start.
Poor recruitment of starters, players on long contracts with huge wages brought in by whatever current manager is there who won't suit the next managers system.
Players winding down their careers there that are a number of years beyond being suitable for the top half of the table.
Poor recruitment of young players, a manager will go for proven players rather than long term potential as he'll need results NOW rather than 3 years down the line.
Inconsistent playing style, players bought to suit the now rather than the future.

As a Liverpool fan, I'm enjoying the fall but, as a football fan, I'm amazed at just how poorly they're being run atm. It really is a shitshow. How did they manage to spend £74m on a striker that only took a penalty 10TH!! Just before Onana took his! WTF is that about?

[marhay70]

On Dorgu, didn't he pick up a knock and was subbed for that?

I wouldn't disagree with you, the players needed to play far better than they did. You could excuse it as a once off cup upset but it's practically every single match now.

There's so much fluked up at United, it's difficult to know where to start.
Poor recruitment of starters, players on long contracts with huge wages brought in by whatever current manager is there who won't suit the next managers system.
Players winding down their careers there that are a number of years beyond being suitable for the top half of the table.
Poor recruitment of young players, a manager will go for proven players rather than long term potential as he'll need results NOW rather than 3 years down the line.
Inconsistent playing style, players bought to suit the now rather than the future.

As a Liverpool fan, I'm enjoying the fall but, as a football fan, I'm amazed at just how poorly they're being run atm. It really is a shitshow. How did they manage to spend £74m on a striker that only took a penalty 10TH!! Just before Onana took his! WTF is that about?

Yep, I agree, the system is fcuked up and it's all down to the Glazers. I know Radcliffe and Ineos supposedly bought the football side separately but the incomings from merchandising are still going to service debt and the Glazers won't put their hands in their pockets for a single cent. The mass sackings of staff and withdrawal of perks and bonuses from lower paid staff, are not worthy of Manchester United and are reminiscent of teams trying to avoid falling out of the league altogether.
On the playing side I disagree that we haven't brought in young players, Rasmus, Zirksee, Yoro for example and we have lifted players from the Academy like Garnacho, Amad, Heavin, Collyer and given them game time, but, as you say, there's still players on big money and long contracts, who, it seems to be the thinking, need to play to earn their corn, even though they are only dragging the team down. Casemiro is a prime example, a brilliant player who has just shot his bolt.
Biggest problem, as I see it,and apart from the obvious goalkeeper, is the lack of a Roy Keane or Bryan Robson in the middle of the park, not only for their value as players but also as Captains. Bruno, brilliant player that he is when playing as a number 10, is not suited to the Captaincy. He feels that if somebody is not doing their job, instead of just giving them a kick up the arse as Keane or Robson would have done, Bruno wants to get in and do it for them and ends up like a headless chicken, running all over the place and getting nowhere. We need to pick our players for their positions and stick to it. At one time against Grimsby, we had, I think, 4 no 10s on the park.
Lastly to the manager, Amorin is a proven top coach, maybe not in the Premier league but then that applies to most of the coaches in the PL at the moment. He needs to be given a chance but equally he needs to accept there are times when you have to adjust your system to cope with the situation on hand.

[Boardsie Exile]

Daniel Levy quits Tottenham.

Spurs fans have taken the news quite well.

[PogMoThoin22]

Daniel Levy quits Tottenham.

Spurs fans have taken the news quite well.

This is a good move and a fresh start but those expecting massive change will be disappointed, Levy and his family still own (or are beneficiaries of) 29.88% of ENIC's share of the club

[Dubit10]

He's done a good job if you don't count trophies, that said look at how much Arteta has spent and all he's got for it is an FA Cup.

[Buford T. Justice VI]

He's done a good job if you don't count trophies, that said look at how much Arteta has spent and all he's got for it is an FA Cup.

I've seen a few pieces talking about Arsenal having a higher net spend than Liverpool this summer despite the number and size of Liverpools purchases.

It's a big change from the Wenger years when the priorities were qualifying for the CL every year and making 1 large sale every year to help offset the cost of building a new stadium.

That has to be counted in the debit column on Arteta, they're not producing good enough players from the academy often enough and possibly overestimating the talent of some of their purchases so they can't sell them for enough to cushion their lack of success here.

[Dubit10]

I've seen a few pieces talking about Arsenal having a higher net spend than Liverpool this summer despite the number and size of Liverpools purchases.

It's a big change from the Wenger years when the priorities were qualifying for the CL every year and making 1 large sale every year to help offset the cost of building a new stadium.

That has to be counted in the debit column on Arteta, they're not producing good enough players from the academy often enough and possibly overestimating the talent of some of their purchases so they can't sell them for enough to cushion their lack of success here.

I don't think iv'e ever seen a manager in the league spend that much money and get such an easy ride from the media and indeed Arsenal fans. It's not just that they fail to win when it counts it's their style of football which is horrible to watch. Arsenal fans used to ridicule other teams who'd think long by shouting Hooooof from the stands, that's them now.

[Boardsie Exile]

Swings and roundabouts with the football philosophy - I'm old enough to remember the George Graham teams.

Arteta has never replaced the Xhaka/Partey/Odegaard midfield with anything nearly as effective. Rice is ridiculously overrated. He's been deployed as a defensive midfielder, an attacking midfielder, and a box to box midfielder - but never made any of those roles his own. Corner kicks seems to his main attribute. On top of that Odegaard looks absolutely frazzled.

Maybe it's my imagination but Arteta seems obsessed with buying left sided defenders as well.

[Dubit10]

Swings and roundabouts with the football philosophy - I'm old enough to remember the George Graham teams.

Arteta has never replaced the Xhaka/Partey/Odegaard midfield with anything nearly as effective. Rice is ridiculously overrated. He's been deployed as a defensive midfielder, an attacking midfielder, and a box to box midfielder - but never made any of those roles his own. Corner kicks seems to his main attribute. On top of that Odegaard looks absolutely frazzled.

Maybe it's my imagination but Arteta seems obsessed with buying left sided defenders as well.

Funny the mention of George Graham (a very decent guy btw) because it's probably Graham's Arsenal who are the last side to win a league title by playing a negative style of football, Arteta doesn't seem to realise the game has moved on and you can't win titles by playing like that anymore. The mad thing is Arsenal have very good footballers indeed and if let off the leash they could go on to achieve great things.

[marhay70]

Funny the mention of George Graham (a very decent guy btw) because it's probably Graham's Arsenal who are the last side to win a league title by playing a negative style of football, Arteta doesn't seem to realise the game has moved on and you can't win titles by playing like that anymore. The mad thing is Arsenal have very good footballers indeed and if let off the leash they could go on to achieve great things.

I can never remember Arsenal being an exciting, free-flowing, footballing side, and that's going back to the 1960s. They were always known as "boring Arsenal".

[Boardsie Exile]

Wenger built the most free - flowing, attacking sides I've ever seen. Single handedly changed an entire nations attitude towards the game.

Arteta is more like a pound shop Mourinho.

[marhay70]

Wenger built the most free - flowing, attacking sides I've ever seen. Single handedly changed an entire nations attitude towards the game.

Arteta is more like a pound shop Mourinho.

Yes, I remember the "Invincibles" and it may be just bias on my part but I never found them attractive to watch. Like Revie's Leeds, lots of success but no charisma, and Wenger, misery personified.

[jmayo]

Yes, I remember the "Invincibles" and it may be just bias on my part but I never found them attractive to watch. Like Revie's Leeds, lots of success but no charisma, and Wenger, misery personified.

You don't remember the pace of Ljundberg and Pires, the moves and goals of Bergkamp and Henry ?

[marhay70]

You don't remember the pace of Ljundberg and Pires, the moves and goals of Bergkamp and Henry ?

If I'm honest, I didn't really watch them that much, saturation coverage of the P{ was not a thing then and I wouldn't have sought them out, I'm more likely to have seen Lundberg playing for Sweden, and Henry cheating for France.

[Boardsie Exile]

He remembers perfectly well.

Only too well I suspect....